Any Indie App Developers or Indie Marketers out there?
Hi,
I am an Indie App Developer for almost 10 years now. To be exact, I am an Indie Developer 2h a day and and employee 6 h a day. I like this combination because I like to work in a big team as employee and love my freedom and creativity with app development.
During the years I have developed many apps (www.changemystyle.com) and did everything by myself. Always switching my role between idea genertion, app development, marketing, graphics designer, technical support, ASO. But not all of these roles makes the same fun and sure there are people better in some of the stuff than me.
I would love to work together with an "Indie Marketer" who would be willing to work on a 50/50 provision base. So same game rules like for me: Try to generate revenue with no income at beginning but there is no limit of income when suceeding. But until now I could not find such a person. I guess it is also a differece if it is your own idea because than you are much more passionate about it. But often it is possible to create a new business idea out of the existing customers.
I also would love to have more knowledge exchange with other Indie App Developers about app marketing. I live in Berlin with many tech meetings but usually the developers are all employees for a company.
So from about 14 apps I developed there are only two which are running really well:
• Paint my Wall: Virtually paint a wall with a different color (https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/paint-my-wall-virtuelles-wand-streichen/id542998115?mt=8)
• Gentle Wakeup: Turn any Android device into a professional wake up light (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.changemystyle.gentlewakeup)
And from these two Gentle Wakeup is the one which makes the most fun. Why? Because you help thousands of people to sleep and wakeup better. They are all happy customers thanking me that I changes their life. There are also many people with sleep disorders where I would love to create new ideas to help them.
So if you are an Indie App Developer or Indie Marketer I would love to hear your story, connect with you, exchange knowledge or maybe even work together :)
You may also join my facebook group for Indie App Developers but please keep discussion at indiehackers.com: https://m.facebook.com/groups/329268487583791
Alex
Here's the thing: you seem to think marketing is "here's a finished product, go do your magic and generate sales".
In reality, marketing starts before first line of code is written and is a process of both promoting what it is today as well as figuring out what the market wants and changing the product accordingly.
If I were to partner with you on marketing front my first advice would be to stop writing iOS or Android customer apps.
You want to write apps that:
A concrete example: write a better git client for mac or windows.
Some but not crazy amount of competition? Check.
Are people paying for such tools? Check.
It's a developer tool. Do developers and their employers have money? Check.
Is it promotable? You can write a free book about git and use it as a lead gen. You can advertise in many developer-oriented newsletters or websites. You can pay for AdSense ads for "git mac client" searches. Check.
Now compare that to Gentle Wakeup.
Android and iOS has crazy amount of competition especially for apps that are easy to write like Gentle Wakeup. In that market an app either has no appeal or has literally tens or hundreds of competition.
Do people pay for such apps? No, they are all free and at best make advertising crumbs (and making the app worse for the user).
Is it target for people with money? No. I mean some people have money but not people specifically that can use Gentle Wakeup.
Is it promotable? No. It's an app for "everybody" and therefore not promotable outside of generic app promotion methods.
I'm almost certain that even if you agree with the above points, you'll keep making mobile apps because that's what you do.
And it shows that you're not ready for a marketing partnership, where people have equal say in the product.
You're really looking for a commission based hired gun.
Here's why it won't work.
A marketer worth his salt has better (i.e. better paying) opportunities than trying to figure out how to make a free Android app get more downloads.
Say you are a developer who respects the difficulty in good marketing, what books would you suggest to begin thinking like a marketer so that it infuses your design decisions?
You can teach someone business accounting, strategies for hiring and retaining employees, how to cook, how to market etc. but you cannot teach anyone how to open a successful restaurant.
Designing software product that has product-marketing fit is not something that can be broke down into steps and then taught.
If predicting success was possible then 90% of heavily vetted companies founded by Venture Capitalists wouldn't fail.
They fail because even people with the most experience are very bad at predicting what will be successful.
To me the best strategy is: use common sense, avoid doing stupid things, do several plausible projects, double down on the first project that shows promise.
If you want good info about marketing, as divorced from product design book Traction (https://medium.com/@yegg/78-takeaways-from-traction-book-1b44d2a03dda) is a comprehensive review of all marketing marketing tactics that are relevant today.
Other useful resources:
Really, if you do a Google search on whatever topic you want more info, the top results will most likely be very good and often free advice.
I've read Traction and thought it was great. I'd like to think that the more perspectives you are exposed to, the more inspiration you can draw on when a path is blocked—even if success can't be predicted, progress can feel pretty good on its own :)
Haven't seen the other resources, but they look really good. Thank you Krzysztof.
Hi,
I think the suggestions you wrote do not really fit in my case.
I am already making good money with my app Gentle Wakeup!
So that proves that it is not wrong to have an app everybody can use and that the customers have money ;). I had many successes with promoting it.
I think that the app has the potential to be a blockbuster so I am searching for a marketer to do this. There is also a paid version of the app and people are willing to spend $10 for it (Currently I am playing around with the price).
And a "marketer worth his salt" is probably an employee so the really big money is made by the company. I am offering a partnership.
After your comment I am curious to get your feedback on my web app. I greatly appreciate your feedback and suggestions on my Online Photo Watermarker https://www.watermark.ink
All photos are watermarked inside the browser is my major difference from other tools, no server round trips.
I released it 3 weeks back and currently working hard to get more visibility and users. I am still struggling to decide what features to give free and what features to charge.
Thank you,
Krishna
I would make a desktop mac / windows app using Electron so that you can re-use most of your code.
I would add an option for a file system scanning (to make it easier for watermarking multiple images) and sell the app for $19/$29 using free website tool as a marketing funnel.
Market it as "use offline", "use for multiple images" or some such. You need to entice people to download / pay for the app.
Add more features to desktop app like more options for where watermark goes etc. Not too much to complicate the app but to have a bit more reason for people to use and pay for the app.
I would remove the pro plan. I doubt people will sign up for it in big enough numbers to matter. A single sale at $19 would be 1.5 year of subscriptions.
Of course if I'm wrong and people do sign up for Pro plan, then keep it. This is not a dogmatic advice, I'm just making predictions about what's likely to happen.
I would improve SEO for "online photo watermark" e.g. change the domain from www.watermark.ink => onlinephoto.watermark.ink or make landing page be www.watermark.in/onlinephoto and redirect / => /onlinephoto.
On the main page show a sample of before and after watermark. Currently I would have to upload the image to see what your tool does exactly.
To push the app even further, restrict free online watermarking to e.g. 2 a day. When the limit runs out, tell them to either buy the app or come back the next day.
That way you get all the casual users but entice frequent users (who already found your app useful) to upgrade.
In case of limits I would guilt trip them to buy. When free daily limit runs out I would say sth. like "Offering a free service requires bandwidth and server resources so we can provide unlimited watermarking. Please help us defer the cost of running this service by buying desktop app. You'll get unlimited watermarking even when the computer is offline, be able to watermark multiple images faster and more advanced watermarking features".
I know that in your case the work is done in the browser so it's not that much of a cost but your users don't know that (and I would then remove that note on the bottom telling them that).
Thank very much for taking time. I first made a desktop app for RAW Converting and Watermarking https://www.Tealpod.com
That is not very successful and got feedback that currently users prefer web apps to desktop apps. So I started working on https://www.Watermark.ink
I am still working on the desktop version and going to release the next big version in couple of days.
I already spent lot of time and money in the watermark.ink and got some positive feedback that the web version is better. So I want to try my luck with pro version. Currently I have like 10 new users everyday that is lot less than what I want.
Pricing: On a previous IH suggestion I went with the point based pricing and it turned out to be flop, couple of users commented that it is very confusing. So I switched back to monthly subscription.
I am right now implementing the daily 2 photo save limit feature. Thank you. I will consider your other suggestions seriously and will update you.
You should at least promote TealPod from watermark.ink Add a text below the drag&drop form saying sth. like "Need desktop app for offline usage and more features? Download [here]".
Sales are a percentage of exposure i.e. for every 100 people who visit your website, some percentage of them will buy the app.
Sales of the desktop app can be low either because conversion rate is low or because not many people visit the website.
The idea above is about using free product to drive exposure for a paid offering (because free is easier to promote).
Don't think of them as separate products but a the same product delivered in two versions, with one version being a promotion channel for the other version.
Also, increase the price of TealPod from $8 to at least $19.
Having a link from watermark.ink to Tealpod.com looks like a good idea. I will add that next week(after publishing the Tealpod version 2.0)
Yes, my visitors for Tealpod are like 1/30 to what I get to watermark.ink and my other site hdrainbow.com (which is completely free gets hundreds of visitors).
You are right again, I previously had the price $14.99 and decreased to $7.99 that didn't make much difference. I will change the price from version 2.0
Thank you again, if you are interested in any of my product please let me know I am more than happy to send you free licenses.
Hi, I am an application developer (already about 6 years), I will be happy to chat with you.
I've previously developed iOS apps, most of them are out of date and I've taken them off the market, some of them were successful (Note-Ify Notes https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/note-ify-notes/id675708914?mt=8) until Apple released a new version of iOS with high-quality Notes.
Now I focused on developing for the Mac OS, when developing Desktop applications there are more possibilities to solve a problem of users, to find a niche ... And it's more fun.
http://www.noteifyapp.com
I, like you, was looking for a marketer to help me find my clients, and I paid % of sales ... But it doesn't work! No one but You will be able to better advertise your app, nobody knows what you are ...
I agree with @kjk that there's no point in developing iOS apps, much less Android apps, not just because the competition is big, just because very few people are willing to pay ... There may be opportunities to build a successful business when developing mobile applications, but only if the mobile application is just a channel of access to your service ... Or do you have some unique algorithms...
How do you see marketing your apps? Reporters to send spam about your applications? Run ads? Ads for mobile apps?
Advertising for a mobile application is too expensive... Leading companies are buying all the traffic... Are you ready to pay $5-50 for the purchase of the user? This is only possible if you have a subscription model and LTV is more than $50-100
Sorry for my English, I use Google translator, I am happy to continue communicating with you.
Hi, yes it is hard in the app store but not impossible to suceed. I had best marketing success by spreading an unlock code because people love free stuff. I think my app Gentle Wakeup has good possibilities to "access other services". Everything you do in the morning like sit ups, meditation, reading news. So a marketer could try to make a big partnership with companies in ghis area.
You want to join facebook indie app developer group? https://m.facebook.com/groups/329268487583791
I'm an indie content marketer/dev and would be interested. Mgmcewen@gmail.com
I send you an email but have not heared from you yet. Are you still interested?
hey Alex. Email me ttariq@mac.com
I send you an email but have not heared from you yet.