Hey guys!
My name is Tom, and I am a 23 year old software engineer and entrepreneur, I run a few profitable ecommerce sites, my latest being lowpriceice.com (which has a looooooong way to go).Take a look if you get a chance, I would love input. Disclaimer: I know the prices may seem high – I am A/B testing them.
I decided to write this post because I’ve seen many posts about idea validation lately, and I think that a lot of people are being hindered by the way they approach validation. I want to be clear: I am not talking about how you can come up with good ideas, only a few ways you can prove they are good.
One such post that was looking for guidance regarding validation spoke of “entrepreneurial ‘faith’” – an almost blind belief that your product will be successful. If that is faith, you want none of it. Companies are created to turn a profit, it is their explicit purpose of existence. If you can solve meaningful problems and improve lives along the way that’s phenomenal, but don’t confuse your existential purpose for your company’s. If your purpose setting out isn’t to make money, you’re not building a business, you’re building a charity.
Another popular, but insidious question is “Would you use this service?” It’s a natural place to start. The problem with this question is what people believe they would be willing to pay for is different from what they actually will pay for. People want to be supportive of creativity, which leads them to overestimate their desire for hypothetical products. This is not actionable feedback, it is emotional support.
A little about myself: I was exceptionally lucky to be born into an entrepreneurial family. My father is a successful ecommerce entrepreneur, and many of my close family also followed a similar path. Other kids grew up talking about sports with their parents, we talked about business. In a way, being an entrepreneur is in my DNA. Spending my high school years in Palo Alto, CA didn’t help – I was bitten by the bug.
I remember being 4 years old, sitting out front with my brother (6 at the time) one weekend and selling Pokémon calendars that we printed out from the internet, on plain printer paper, to kids and their parents headed to the park for $10 a pop (we were cute kids 😊).
Anyway – idea validation: At its core validation is about limiting your risk - finding out if your business model will work: while spending as little money and time as possible doing so. There are a few powerful techniques that are helpful in finding out whether your idea has legs. Luckily for lots of us indiehackers these are easy validation methods, and the results are actionable right away.
I firmly believe that with proper validation procedure you will never waste more than is necessary on any ideas that won’t pan out. Validation is the most important part of any early stage startup.
Without validation you will always be guessing. Often until you are ruined.
Without validation you will have a much harder time securing funding.
Most importantly without validation you can’t get information from prospects without building a product.
I believe (less firmly) that it is the most important aspect in any business. There is a reason that the prophets of profit always talk about MVPs and product market fit. The focus on those aspects is a lesson that a lot of successful business men paid dearly to learn. Luckily many of them told us their lessons so that our “tuition” costs are far lower than theirs.
My personal favorite way of validating ideas is to sell products before I create them. You can throw up a quick site on Shopify for free, buy a relevant domain or two for 20 dollars or less, and use your free $100 credit with AdWords through Shopify to drive traffic.
Now, before the web developers tear me limb from limb for using Shopify – think about it, most people don’t have a technical background. They either use a prebuilt solution or pay you to build their site. Set aside your self interest and I think you’ll find that ecommerce solutions are good enough for beginning a business. Particularly as computer scientists it’s hard to stomach “good enough”, we are taught that the project isn’t done if it isn’t optimal. The truth is that nothing is optimal the first time it’s built, but it can be “good enough.”
This seemed like a sleazy way to do business when I was first introduced to the concept. I think that is a natural response for a good entrepreneur: it’s your instinct that you have an obligation to your customer to provide value. If you think about it though, plenty of products are sold that way. Consulting, restaurants, construction, and even lots of software are all sold to customers sight unseen. If you give them their money back, you aren’t a crook. If you are still uncomfortable, give them a discount if you launch. Think of all the times you’ve been disappointed because a company ran out of the product you want.
All you were was disappointed, not angry, not on a vendetta, just a little disappointed. Then you switched tabs and forgot about it.
Another great way to validate an idea, but more difficult to do with software is to ship prototypes. If you represent it correctly and customers are willing to buy, you can begin working on manufacturing. Until that point, however, you are hemmed in with minimum order quantities, high fulfillment costs and uncertainty about ways to improve the product. Essentially when you go straight to manufacturing you get a bunch of sub-optimal, expensive prototypes that may not even sell.
That’s a lot more palatable to me, because the customers will get something more out of the transaction. If it takes off and I begin manufacturing and offer to send a free or discounted manufactured copy to the customers who got prototypes.
Validation is an important part of building your business. It is really hard to separate people from their money, and even harder to accurately estimate the amount of money you can make without real data. Worse than that, however, is the possibility of jumping straight into the deep end: you open yourself to risk on many levels. Even more than that it can burn you out and end your entrepreneurial experiments before they get a fair chance. The world direly needs more innovators, don’t let yourself fail to fill that need because you didn’t prepare well enough.
If you don’t think these ideas are up your alley, you can look at magazine companies’ product development strategies. They pioneered selling what they don’t have to evaluate the value of new niche magazines. There is a lot to learn from in other domains, especially those that have been around for a while.
I can go into greater depth – how to think about your marketing and business model – customer acquisition costs, etc if anyone wants, just let me know 😊
Thanks for sharing your ideas.
You only need the appearance of a product. If I’m selling a physical product I have mockups made of what I would want the final product to look like, or I use prototypes.
The idea is to make the site as if the product is complete, to do that you can spoof what you have done.
Here’s an example:
I wanted to sell a hookah game that would be like Russian roulette, tap the top, a light spins, and whoever it lands on has to take a hit.
Rather than develop the product right off the bat, I had a graphic designer build mock ups. I put that on the page, A/B tested pricing, ran some ads, and validated the idea with about $100. I made that back with my first two sales.
Some people like to get email lists, which is great for publication products like books, blogs, etc. but giving your email isn’t as strong an indicator of desire as someone putting cash down. I don’t believe anyone will buy anything until I see them doing it. Before they actually buy, you’re just guessing at demand.
Is that helpful?
It's helpful, yes, thanks!
But I have still a question - what's going on actually when a potential buyer clicks the "Buy" button? Do you just show him/her some information like "Thanks, we will notify you when the product is available" or so or you really grab his/her money?
I would also qualify something: you do have a product idea and mockups. You don’t have any made, but people know what they’re getting.
This also helps with prototyping because you can A/B test different feature offerings to see who converts best - that way you get clear expectations for what the product specifically needs to do, and what your customers expect you to deliver.
I actually grab the money, then refund them. I’ll typically also offer them a discount for the inconvenience and tell them we are out of stock. I don’t save their email or anything, but you could have them sign up for your news letter.
It’s the best way to be sure people are willing to pay. Plenty of people drop off and never come back, abandon carts, etc.
By letting everything be exactly as it would be with product, you can see how the idea performs.
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I use shopify payments until I have time to build out a site, then I switch to stripe.
Neither service charges you fees for refunds.
Thanks for the post. I have a question though:
After creating a website for your future project and driving traffic to it. How do you know when you have succeeded? I have a website and I have potential buyers for my product (2.99 usd/month) but I don't know whether I should go ahead or not.
I know I have succeeded if when I have the actual results from the ad campaign.
I ask:
Is my cost of customer acquisition tenable?
Am I satisfied with my profit margin?
Do I see a path for developing my strategy?
Are there many similar feature requests?
Validation gets you data. Not meaningless data, either. It’s one of a few measured metrics that actually matters.
I would suggest pulling the trigger. You won’t know until you check, and you can do a lot of validation for free. If you throw up your site and product, push traffic to it, and find that after a meaningful sample size (I like using raosoft for quick sample sizing) people aren’t converting at a profitable rate you can either abandon the idea or change your marketing.
Does that help?
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. The post is quite long and I had some trouble getting the basics ideas out of it.
Let me quickly recap: Your validation methods would be
Did I get that right?
I think the quickest validation approach is to just try to start a discussion since you just need to explain your idea and see if it resonates. Or is this what you mean by "Would you use this service?" type of questions.
I think starting a discussion is a valid approach. If it resonates and you get positive answers you can be confident to build a prototype. If you get negative answers it's time to move on.
The problem is that it's hard to understand what it means if the discussion doesn't resonate. For example, I tried to start a discussion here recently: https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/email-template-builder-with-reusable-components-e0e262a493
When you don't get answers you cannot be sure if nobody is interested, if you picked a bad time to create the post or if your headline and explanation weren't good enough to get people to answer.
What are your thoughts on that?
It’s been my experience, and and the experience of many around me that asking the “would you use this?” Question is only good for encouragement. You will find that if you deliver that product to them few will actually buy. Otherwise it’s just encouragement, which is good for getting started, but won’t move product.
A question that is similar, but far more useful is to talk to people about the problem they are experiencing, and what they feel like the solution is worth to them. Try to see if they can estimate what they spend solving he problem currently.
Ultimately the reason why your product didn’t succeed is inconsequential. It only really matters that it didn’t work, and you need to know that as soon as possible.
Anything short of having a product that just isn’t wanted by anyone can be alleviated by time and testing.
You really want to avoid product centric thinking. People use products to solve problems in their lives. Think of your product entirely in terms of what you are solving for your customer. Think problem-centrically.
hey man, i can understand ur frustration . i too have tried many times to get feed that alot of successful. I had a cryptoscreener idea but its impossible to explain but my idea was stock screener as a stable business there need to be a crypto screener. I think alot of idea which can be validated as on the edge of red ocean and alot of idea which are blue ocean are thuff till the product is shown. I saw ur site. Its a edge of red ocean. your selling jewellery online. I guess the question is why should i come to your site. wat the value proposition. Please see a video by Kunal Shah of Freecharge, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eNxRSyOyE
hope its help. I only answer question no one else answer coz i know the pain when question asked are not answered. :-) all the best
Thank you for the video, I will watch it first chance I get this weekend. I appreciate your comment as well, it would be painful not to be heard, so thank you for sparing me that on my first post here 😁
I think you missed the point of my post - I was providing my perspective on a particular approach to validating ideas, taught to me by people who have succeeded before. I did not intend to come across as irritated or agitated.
It was more about trying to give back to indiehackers than it was looking for advice. I meant the advice tag to mean that I was providing advice.
As for lowpriceice, I am experimenting with brand building and instagram advertising. I haven’t put much work into the site (it shows). I chose jewelry, despite the high level of competition, because I wanted to pick a product that is highly visual.
I’m also experimenting with T-shirts and sweaters for the same reason. I chose them because of the challenge to differentiate yourself from the competition, unfortunately jewelry is a lot more crowded than I expected, and if I want my brand to be on target I have to lower my prices - which may just not be worth the trouble for me.
All that said, it is proving to be challenging! I suspected that a position as a value store would be most interesting to the customers I am trying to cater to. Jewelry on the lower end of the cost spectrum is almost a commodity, and with few exceptions has very little brand loyalty.
My next step is to increase the number of product images, improve the product descriptions, and develop more targeted ads.
An interesting question I have is this: does anyone get conversions from Instagram? I don’t personally know anyone who ever bought anything from Instagram, and I cant find any data.
I understood wat u said, i added the getting the data frustation i am facing. Its like scratch ur own itch this side and make wat people want on the other.
About instagram m not use, but there are a few image recognition start up using to link product to the marketting of it.
It would appear that I didn’t understand what you said! That’s embarrassing, sorry 😊
I’ve looked into that a bit, but I couldn’t find any examples of the work that it produces. They also charge $1-3 a description which is a pretty outrageous fee for such a service. For that much you could just hire a person!
best of luck !
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Books, software, workout equipment, it really works with anything.
There are also lots of studies of magazine launches, etc.
Kickstarter runs entirely off this model. Except there it’s explicit that there is no product yet.
I wouldn’t really call it landing page validation, it kind of muddies the water. This isn’t really pre-selling either, because you aren’t preparing for a sale, you are selling.
You would build an entire site and make it look like stuff is happening, people are buying, etc.
Most people don’t do this level of work for validation. Most people’s businesses also fold. If you check back later I’m willing to bet most indie hackers businesses will fail. Maybe at a lower rate than the average, but more than 50% will.
Of those that make it past that and take funding - most of those will fail.
There is no “right way” todo things, but there are “righter ways”