Hey hackers!
So my project (https://sportfixturesapi.com) is gaining some traction a week or so after launch. I told my director of engineering I was making it at the time and everything was all cool.
This week however, they appear to have changed stance slightly and are leaning towards making me shut it down or the obvious alternative. -_-
Im all good about doing that if its deemed a conflict, but I have never received a terms of employment from them / employee handbook. Ive signed a contract etc with antitrust but it doesnt mention side projects anywhere.
As I said, Im not fussed if I have to shut this one down / change it to a free model, as the whole product was really an excercise for setting up an API / subscription payments etc.
Just wondering if anybody else has experienced this and what they did / how it all worked out.
To clarify a bit, I work for an anti-piracy (copyright enforcement) company as an engineer - :)
Thanks!
What are their concerns exactly?
It's important to make sure you understand why they are apprehensive of your continued work on the project... (it might be something you hadn't considered and can quickly clear up)
If the project has no real cross over with your day job, then I can only assume they are worried about your performance, commitment to the job long term or simply the effect you may have on your colleagues (real or perceived).
I'd recommend a friendly, off the record chat with your immediate boss (maybe over a coffee/beer) where you can do some discovery and mend some bridges.
If things really have taken a turn for the worse, then I agree with Courtland that a quick chat with a lawyer (and keeping a trail of important points/conversations in writing) would be a sensible next step.
I second this approach. Find out what your employer's specific concerns are as, at this moment, it seems it could be anything.
They could be worried about you getting distracted by the side project, which obviously shouldn't be the case, or it could be an element of the copyright issue (even if the law is on your side), or they may just feel pressure from senior forces to reign in employees (irrational perhaps).
Good luck with the conversation and remember to keep it amicable!
Thanks Louis, ill chase up my direct boss today and have a chat :) thanks for all the advice!
List it on flippa, have someone in your inner circle "buy it off you" to create a public record of it changing hands, then tell your engineering manager you have decided to let the project go. Keep it obviously, keep working on it, win. You gave up your leverage by telling them, now go get it back!
Devious!
Looks like you're from the UK, and so I'm not sure what the laws are over there. But it can't hurt to have a short consultation with an attorney, probably before you have a direct conversation with your company about things.
Hopefully the fact that your project is completely unrelated to your job will work in your favor.
Yes, and I would add to make sure to approach the conversation in a friendly, "let's figure this out together" manner. Being adversarial is usually less effective (and more likely to sour relationships).
Thanks Courtland - im going to try and clariify this again with work - Im still trying to get hold of the relevent documents that should clearly explain whats allowed / not allowed. Either way, I have set up a second site for my second launch so if anything this is just making me iterate faster in the feedback loop!
What do they have to do with what you do on your spare time? Just to clarify.
Are they concerned because it's a side-project, or because of the potentially legal issue of making copyrighted football fixtures available?
I can understand the concerns should an employee of an anti-piracy company be caught out 'pirating' the football fixtures
Sorry, maybe my landing isnt clear enough on this, we dont pirate any games, or even point to any games or streams etc, we just show the start / end time of a fixtures, the event name / and or teams and the location.
Its just made available to let people build fixtures tables for their websites etc.
On that note though - I did some research into the premier league (football) and they have somehow managed to get a court to agree that the data is copyrighted - so it looks like a liscence fee will have to be paid at some point in the future if I want to support that specific tournament. thanks!
I too was just talking about the fixtures themselves (which as you correctly note are copyrighted). I used to run a football forum back in the day and we used to have a rule of no posting fixtures, to avoid this issue.
You're using copyrighted information without a licence and then in turn making it easy for users to use that copyrighted data on their own sites. Whilst I can't believe the PL have the rights for this, I can understand why your employee may be concerned about it.
Anyway, have a chat with them and let us know what happens.
Good luck!
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In that case, I stand corrected. The forum I was running was pre-2012 and wasn't aware of the change in legislation - apologies for leading you up a dark alleway @NullByte
Oh ok - Im pretty confused about this - either outcome however will see a similar effect on the product - im thinking about pivoting it a little bit anyway .
Thanks to all that have taken the time to help out with this!!!!
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Upvote just for the level of detail you went into in your response. What don't you know, Thomas? 😉
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Hah that's the indie hacker spirit!
Updates to all - the company has asked me to shut down the website, for fear of some of the content I have there being related to a client, and therefore not wanting any sort of thing associated with it. So, I have done so, the service is not live anymore. I have many more tricks up my sleeve and this one can just go into hibernation for the time being :)
Thanks everyone
You can't expect them to sanction something of that nature. The Formula 1 also prosecute people who repost their live timing data. They "own" the public data. I'm sure having an employee making money from data that a potential partner of their's owns and may one day want to utilize is not a good look.
I had no desire to put any more information than start and end time, if people want detailed sporting info, there are many services that provide that data, this service was simply for fixtures - one of the biggest services that provide this charge > £8000 a month for access to such data - and more power to them!
I’m going to take a rather harsh stance for the sake of making a point. You owe your employer nothing, continue working on it and put number 1 first. The crux of employment is time for money and nothing else, your employer would love to convince you otherwise, but if the money stopped, you wouldn't continue to go into work.
I can see how they could worry about your performance, but if you're gonna code in the evenings you're going to do it anyway, plus they get the added bonus of you levelling up your skills.
I would definitely speak with them and find out what their concerns are and if they ask you to stop working on leverage it for them to pay you more money to cover the time in your evenings weekends that you're not allowed to work.
Mainly though if you're working for an employer who tries to lock you down like that you're probably better off trying to build up your side project revenue and look for a way out.
I’ve been in the situation before where I was forced into signing a non-compete employment contract by a large organisation, I argued at first but could tell it was just standard practise and if I didn't accept I'd be out on my ear.
Lastly as a tangental aside employers are always trying to put you down and make you think starting your own business is an impossible feat, speaking from experience it's not as hard as you might think, if you're a hard worker and good at what you do you can definitely find more creative ways to make money that don't involve employers.
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