I've long believed that if I make a great product, it will sell itself. People will find it, fall in love with it and tell their friends about it. As long as that didn't happen, I believed my product wasn't good enough. If I would just continue building, add that one extra feature, eventually, it will be so good, that growth will come automatically.
As you probably know, it doesn't work like that. Unless you go out there and tell people about your product, it will never gain traction. The point is, 'selling' the product, pitching it to bloggers, posting on social media, doesn't feel natural to me. I'm just more of a developer and less of a salesman. I'm not saying I'm an introvert, but maybe I am a bit.
With SiteGuru, I've now come to a point where I'm sure the product is good enough to reach a decent audience, and be super useful to a large group of people. However, despite having 1750 users, it doesn't feel like it has really taken off. To live off this product, I need more visitors, and eventually more paying customers.
I've tried many things to gain more publicity, but the SEO tool market is super competitive. Getting someone to blog about your product is damn hard.
I'm determined to not fall into the trap of adding more features. I've seen too many examples - including my own products - that started off as easy to use but soon became cluttered with too many features. This time, I'll keep it simple.
I'm not looking for a short term 'viral' success, I'm looking for sustainable growth. I'm reading Traction which has some great ideas, and I've just bought MakeBook by Pieter Levels, but at the same time I'm done reading books, it's time for action.
More importantly, I'm looking to find ideas from fellow Indie Hackers. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. How do you go about this? Where do you find your audience? And which channels are great to bring in new clients?
Hello!
I took a look at your site. Here's some quick feedback that I hope can be useful to you. Note that I am not a developer, but I do have many years in tech and product management.
Many sites struggle with similar problems as yours. I call it the 'sentence fragment' syndrome. It means that your value proposition to your customer is only a sentence fragment. Like this - imagine your target user saying "I need to run these SEO diagnostics because..." And then you fill in what comes after 'because'.
If your answer looks like this "because everyone should run routine diagnostics", then you are relying on a specific customer behavior to drive your traffic. Unreliable and unpredictable. This is especially true when you are relying on 'shoulds'. All people SHOULD clean their kitchens. All people SHOULD balance their checkbooks. All people SHOULD get their oil changed. Yeah, well they should, but not all people do. Don't rely on what a customer should do as a way to increase traffic.
If your answer looks like this "because SEO optimization is a good idea", then you are failing to sell me on why its important and why I should do it. Especially if I don't have a deep technical background. Another one that might fall into this camp is "because I need to fix my broken links". As a customer I don't know I need to fix any broken links until someone (you) tells me how much traffic I've lost or how many disgruntled customers I have because of broken links. Pain sells, but sometimes you have to open the eyes of the customer to recognizing the pain they didn't even realize they had.
If your answer looks like this "because I am about to buy a website off of EmpireFlippers or Flippa and I need to know what kind of shape the site is in before I buy it"... NOW you have a value proposition and a target customer. Or, "because I just bought a website off of Flippa that said I could make hundreds/thousands if I only put a little work into SEO." Now you have a second target customer.
Couple of more thoughts:
Hope this was helpful to you in some way.
Pmox2018
You have an awesome comment and a catchy phrase "sentence fragment" to describe the issue. Thank you very much!
To @RickVanHaasteren :
You can try taking @pmox2018 diagosis of the "shoulds" and rewrite them as benefits. Maybe u need to ask 5 whys in order to get to the benefits.
E.g.
All people SHOULD clean their kitchens. (as stated in the comment)
Why?
Why?
1.1Because people want to have a healthy environment for foods
1.2 Because a clean kitchen impresses friends and visitors
Why?
1.1.1Because people want to avoid getting sick from eating unhygienic food
1.2.1 Because there is always a friend or visitor who nitpicks on you and you hate it when they do.
.. and so on.
So final positioning may be "A kitchen to impress even your mother-in-law"
E.g.
All people SHOULD balance their checkbooks.
Why?
Why?
1.1Because I want to be seen as adult
2.1 Because I want a peace of mind
Why?
... and so on.
So final positioning may be "Peace of mind. At all times."
KimSia
Short-form: consider contracting out to a copywriter. You can't be and don't want to be an expert at everything. It's OK to outsource marketing.
Let me repeat that for all the brilliant hackers and software engineers:
IT'S OK TO OUTSOURCE YOUR MARKETING.
And your sales, and your (insert everything else here).
You are amazing at your thing. Maybe 3 things. Maybe 50. Not at all things and not at everything. That isn't a challenge. Double-down on your thing(s). Let others double-down on theirs.
A great copywriter will return many multiples of your investment. You might spend $100 on this or $500+/hr. Generally speaking, you get the biggest multiplier from the biggest spend (there is a reason the high-cost copywriters can command high prices).
I've always done my own design+copy but have thought about outsourcing, cuz I'm definitely no expert at either. If going this route. I'd be interested to learn the most effective way to work with a copywriter because it seems kind of intertwined with design. How to avoid the my words are great, your design doesn't frame them well and the opposite, the design is great but the words suck. In a sense, these two things form the "brand" so how do you outsource while making them both cohesive and effective?
Hey, thanks so much for your comment. I've struggled with that messaging you describe. I thought about tapping into a user's fear with texts like 'Find issues you didn't know you had', but I stuck to the more positive messaging for now.
I'll look around and see how other SaaS products that provide similar services are doing it, just to get some inspiration.
About the 10 day trial: I just started that (before, it was all free unless you wanted to add more than 50 pages), so I'll see how it goes. I kept it at 10 days exactly for the reason you're pointing out: you'll have picked the low hanging fruit within those 10 days, after which the product may become less valuable.
Again, many thanks for your insights!
Hey, just one more point for you to consider. In addition to looking at how other SaaS vendors handle the situation, you might look to some offline industries as well. After I thought about your problem for a few minutes, the offline analogy that came to me was that your service is quite similar to a home inspector.
Such as...
Anyway, good luck to you and it was fun looking at your site and providing feedback. (Helps me in my dayjob too!)
I think the home inspector is a great offline analogy! You may need one when selling, buying, before and after renovating etc. All of those are cases that apply to websites too.
@RickVanHaasteren could apply that same wording to his copy and marketing. A website home inspector would be easier to understand for a non-technical person than a website that says "check your website" ("I can very well check my own website, I just opened it!"). The inspector analogy also helps in the case where non-technical website owners use contractors to build their website/home and then get an inspector to check that website/home. I've studied the website checker market, and I didn't find a way to compete with the existing solutions because the space is so crowded, but there is an opportunity for website owners that don't regularly check their website.
Also, when you are in a crowded market, look at what makes your competition successful:
Good one, thanks!
Hi Rick!
I don't have any advice here, but I'm in a pretty similar boat to you. I've spent all my time learning how to make things and a lot less on actually connecting that to users.
So I'm really keen to see the responses you get.
:D
There is someone on here with a website that pairs up business/marketing people with builders/developers, I'll try to find it but I really love the idea, it matches people with different skill sets to help them help eachother succeed.
Yes, that would be awesome!
Found it! http://www.githustle.com/
Please reply to me as well when you remember that website
Found it! http://www.githustle.com/
Have you used Git Hustle before?
Have not had the chance to yet, but I am planning to in the future.
Hey Rick!
I have a couple thoughts for you to help you leverage your existing user base.
Hop on calls, send out surveys, find them in communities, follow them on Twitter, make note of what kind of businesses they are. The clearer your understanding of your customers, the better you will be able to come up with viable ways to find more people like them.
Affiliate programs aren’t for everyone, but they can be a viable growth strategy. Especially considering the size of your user base, implementing an affiliate program could be a long-term strategy that also pays off in the short-term. Offer to do a webinar with affiliates, create collateral, and make your affiliates your biggest advocates.
This might not seem very helpful but considering you have an SEO tool, you could do some keyword research and competitive research to figure out if or what the information gap is and how you can fill it. Focus on writing in-depth, helpful content. Ask your customers if you can ask them about their experience with your tool and the results they’ve gotten from it and then write up a story about what they achieved using your tool.
Hope that’s helpful!
Thanks Corey! Good point, I need to talk to my customers more often. Affiliate program sounds good too!
You’re welcome! BTW if you did want to experiment with affiliates, I’d highly recommend a fellow indie maker’s getrewardful.com
I just wrote about doing more marketing. Taken from there:
"Try to see marketing as a tool to help your (prospect) customers. That does make all the difference, right? How can you help them? For instance: create an article they can learn from, create a handy little tool they can use, or tell them about your product that will save them time.
That last one is marketing/sales too, but by framing it as “helping them save time (or money!)”, it is easier to do. After all, your product does help them save time and money, doesn't it?"
Also feel free to mail—happy to help! ✌️
Hi Eelco, cool post, very much touches upon the issue I'm having now. I'll be in touch!
Hey Rick. I won't evaluate the site as others have done a great job. But your question was "I'm a builder, not a seller"....and first of all, just know that you don't have to be both. It does not mean you will fail. What I do is think of it this way: You need to get get people around you or working with you that have the skills you lack. Does that mean you have to pay them? No....if you can find people that have marketing and sales skills and show them your progress and share the vision and show what you are doing, then they could choose to help for a great arrangement. What's most important is that you have a vision and are able to articulate that to potential "business partners". Builders and sellers can be the same person but in many cases they aren't because we all have our own special set of skills and some people try to be both by reading an article but the reality is.....just find good people that compliment you and let them apply their knowledge while you build. :)
Thanks Shane, makes total sense. I'll keep you posted.
To answer your question in short: you won't grow only as a builder. You need to be able to communicate and sell your product.
That's hard, that's tough, it takes time. It's difficult to automate. But you could have the best service of the world, you won't score if nobody uses it.
I don't have any suggestion, But good resource I can recommend to learn marketing and customer acquisition is everyonehatesmarketers podcast. The will get to hear practical step by step methods that you can apply in your business. Good episode to start with is https://everyonehatesmarketers.com/how-to-send-emails-with-high-open-rates/
Cool! Always good to hear about interesting podcasts. This one will be on when I cycle to work:-)
The great thing about making a B2B products is that it'll be clear which companies are in your target group. Now go find them on LinkedIn or wherever and cold e-mail them.
Hi Rick, congrats on the success so far!
It's hard to give you specific advice for your situation without knowing more about exactly 'where you are'.
Here are a few things you probably want to think about though:
That seems a bit off. If you're providing value to 1750 people, there must be some additional value you can provide to a subset of them relatively easily and which they are willing to pay for. To paraphrase Paul Graham, it's better to make something a few people love, than a lot of people like.
If you need more actionable advice, I've started running a weekly email blast for founders in your position (technical, struggling to build a profitable business). Every week there's a 5min actionable article, with examples, which should help you grow. It's free at FiveMinuteFounder.com
Good luck!
Add input required to FiveMinuteFounder's email so you can't submit an empty form :) the submit button is also missing cursor: pointer; for some reason, I thought it's automatic with type=submit.
Good catch! Just because it's a free project isn't an excuse for me to be that sloppy :D
Regarding
cursor:pointer;
it could be some manual styling from the CSS template I'm using which overrides the standard. I'll check it out. Thanks!Thanks so much Louis, that really helps! You mention a good point: thinking about what customers really want. I'm sure the product I'm offering is what a lot of people want/need (based on signups, engagement, etc), I just need to improve the messaging to attract new customers. Speaking their language, addressing their needs, fears, etc.
Signed up for your newsletter!
Wow, I can't believe all the comments on this post. There are so many valuable lessons in it, I think I need to just sit down and write everything down:-)
Amazing to see the power of this community, thanks all!
Same here. Meaning I can't tell you what to do and claim it will work. I'll share what I'm doing.
I was a 100% developer. Now I'm trying to push that number down to 30%. Should have started that way, but there's no turning back now and I still believe my product can succeed.
You are a builder, but you weren't born one. It's a skill you've acquired. It's the same for sales and marketing. Sure, some people are naturals, but if you're capable enough to build a non-trivial product, you are capable of figuring out marketing as well.
It will take you time. We builders tend to underestimate all non-builder professions, and we're often wrong. It is a tough, crowded profession requiring grit and creativity. It might take you half a year to learn the basics, and it's changing all the time. I think you're already doing that since you mentioned you read books on marketing.
I don't know your product nor your audience, but I'd say you should probably blog more. You have a few posts, you should try doing them more frequently. And bigger. Much bigger. Try do a few 5.000 word ultimate guides. It has helped me understand my product and my niche a lot, and I suggest you try the same. Also, you might be doing this already, but you should talk to your existing customers. 1750 is quite a solid number, I'm sure they'll eagerly answer how to provide more value to them and what would they be willing to pay.
In the end, you could always consider getting another person to do this for you. Personally I wanted to learn all these things myself and be a one-man team, but there's a lot of work, and times are moving fast... Still, after you add marketing to your skill set, you'll be better suited to grow your product better, or start your next one with a more customer-oriented approach instead of just mindlessly adding features. That's what I wish for myself at least.
Good luck.
Thanks Matt, I think we're pretty much in the same boat. You're absolutely right, those skills can be learned. It may feel a bit unnatural, but it's good to get out of your comfort zone.
Just a thought - maybe you also need a pricing option for sole founders who have just 1 website and €29/mo for them seems to be too much to spend for single tool? Like €9/mo for single website? Otherwise it seems that you're targeting to small business/agencies only and in that way you have to think more of what they need and how to adjust your copyright to them. Or maybe your traffic isn't converting because majority of your visitors just don't have 5 sites and it's expensive for them to spend €29/mo just for 1?
P.S. Love clean design/UI
An easy way to get traffic is to create free seo tools. Make some of your site's features into small tools and make them public and then share it reddit and facebook groups, Quora and other communities. You will get a lot of traffic this way. Paid advertising would also work, if you have the budget. Most SEO services out there does it. They upsell their products. Here is what you should do:
Create free tools for each services:
These tools page should say something, like "Get the full Report and let us Fix it for you" or something like that. and list the other tools that are paywalled and show CTA Button to upgrade.
Hope that helped.
Let me know if you have further questions
Hi Towfiq, thanks, that sounds interesting. My only worry is that I tried something similar before, and that didn't work. Until recently, you could run a check on a single page, and sign up to analyze your entire website. The conversion from those single page checks to a signed up user was quite low, and I fear this maybe similar. Anyway, I'll keep it in mind!
Lots of great feedback on here already. I'll add my voice to the theme of exploring your existing (paying) customers. When I checked out the site, I had the same question - who is the target customer? Probably not a small business website owner. I'd look at the websites of each customer, and see if you can find a niche that several fall into, and expand there. Nathan Barry has written an excellent post on hyper-focusing on one niche (http://nathanbarry.com/30k/ and possibly here on IH).
One more comment - I'd probably remove the row of vague graphics below the trial account setup - they really don't communicate anything, and they push your value propositions down the page. OK, one more - do you have (or can you get) some testimonials?
hmm.. maybe the your CTA copy wasn't convincing enough. And maybe add an instant incentive for signing up. Another important suggestion I would give is: Instead of listing the features, always list what they are missing out on, and how it could help. (like how visitos are hurting their site by misoptimizing their sites ) .
Good point. My target customer currently is anyone who's trying to improve their website. I realize that's not specific enough, and i need to find and focus on a specific niche. Thanks for pointing me to Nathan's post, will read it!
Good point about the visual, I'll get rid of it.
Hey,
Many developers struggle with this same issue. We can build awesome products, but often lack the time/skills/motivation necessary to properly sell and market a successful business. After all, development work is hard enough without pilling on a full-time sales and marketing role on top of it!
I've actually run into so many developers in this situation (myself included) that I decided to build a solution. Enter http://www.githustle.com . We connect developers with projects / products to people willing to help sell/market them.
You simply post your project for an interested sales/marketer to discover. Once you find a great match, you can split the profit, disperse equity, or just do it for fun! The site itself is free to use, feel free to check it out!
p.s. We also offer "hidden menu" services where we work with you to help validate your business model, discover your target customer segments, analyze user engagement, perform user outreach, assess product differentiation, optimize revenue strategies, and many other foundations for a sustainable business. More often than not these "mass marketing" techniques will succeed in getting some eyes on your site, but won't produce a sustainable business. Let alone a viable revenue strategy or product differentiation. This is where we can help. PM me if you're interested learning more!
Glad to hear I'm not the only one! Githustle sounds like a great idea, I'll be in touch!
Hey! Firstly, great looking site. It has a clean, straightforward design language that inspires confidence (which is a good thing when you're trying to woo customers). A few thoughts, and I'll try not to cover ground other people have already:
As others have said, you can augment your non-builder skills by outsourcing. However, as a builder, you also have some tricks up your sleeve that someone who isn't a builder wouldn't have readily available: you know how to set up A/B tests faster than someone non-technical; you know how to track conversion funnel metrics; you have the chops to install a user intercept tool (like Ethnio), etc. etc. Being technical has its benefits, so use them!
I think you have a potential goldmine with the SEO Academy. High quality, easy to understand content for something relatively complex like SEO is hugely valuable, and could act as the magnet for pulling in interested users - who you can then convert by offering them your product.
On a similar note, I feel like the Blog and Academy might be confusing and/or cannibalizing one another. My hunch would be to optimize your blog content so that it supplements the Academy stuff, and even consider combining them. This will make it easier to direct conversions as well.
Cross-post everything you write on Medium. It's a great source of eyeballs, and with attribution tracking it won't mess up your SEO game.
One last thought on the homepage messaging: "Check your site" is pretty vague, and doesn't necessarily speak to specific user problems. I would run multiple messaging A/B tests (if you're not already), and maybe get help from a copywriter as others have suggested. Then, if you spend a tiny bit on AdWords, Facebook, etc. , you can optimize the messaging for your target audience pretty quickly.
Best of luck!
Thanks Felix, appreciate your feedback!
Glad you like the SEO Academy, and I agree it can be confusing that there's also a blog. Reason is I started with the blog, then later created the Academy. In the near future, all timeless, high quality content should be in the academy, and the blog will mainly be for product updates.
I'll work on the messaging of the homepage, and will run some tests. Thanks again!
I really like how clear the setup is :) Use of colors and whitespace works very well. But, I wan't clear on what the website did from information above the fold, you might want to test some more headlines there. Also, as soon as I landed on your pricing page, I thought it was for agencies as smallest plan also has 5 websites in it. If most of your current paying customers are agencies, then it makes sense. Also, if you have whitelable + email template option for email notifications for agencies, I would surely highlight that. Hope this is helpful.
Thanks Natwar! I'm not focusing on agencies right now, although I am considering that. What gave you the impression that the site is focused on agencies? Maybe I need to clear that up.
When I saw all your plans have more than 1 website. 2 thoughts came to my mind simultaneously:
Does that make sense?
PS: When I ran a SAAS business in past, whenever I saw anything for more than 1 website, I use to leave them and find alternative. One exception being wordpress hosting.
Hope this is helpful :)
That's a great point, never thought of it like that. Let me think about it, I may have to adjust my plans based on your comment:-)
Sounds good, feel free to tag me again you need my inputs :)
PS : This is true power of this community :)
Man 1650 customers is really a lot if you know how to convert them tointo paying.I suggest you remove the free trial altogether because real customers are going to pay anyway.
How did you gain the users?Ads?Or word of mouth?
Congratulations!
Hardly any ads, it's mostly from posting on sites like ProductHunt and some deal programs like StackCommerce. I've dedicated a whole post to that topic, so check it out: https://www.indiehackers.com/@RickVanHaasteren/how-i-got-my-first-1000-users-47d06edc3d
Appreciate the insight! I've been gaining my own users one-by-one, commenting and liking on IG. It's a long and slow process...but we're nearly at 1000 now :)
Awesome, keep it going!
Currently going through the same growth issue. We're at 59 monthly paying users, but I'm really trying to figure out what's going to get us to 100+ paying users and eventually have a system in place to sustain that kind of growth.
I also just went through Traction which was a really great read - are you currently testing multiple traction channels?
Yeah, but only the ones that don't give direct results (SEO, content marketing), so it's hard to measure.
I'm planning on running multiple advertising campaigns on different platforms (Twitter, FB, Linkedin and Reddit) and see if that works.
Also just started reading MakeBook by @levelsio, which seems pretty cool.
Glad you're reading Traction!
I'd also think about doing highly targeted direct outreach to 10-20 people you think will LOVE the product and see their feedback.
How has the MakeBook been so far? Worth the cost?