AMA: Justin Jackson of Marketing for Developers
Are you a software developer who wants to launch an app, get hundreds of customers, and quit your job?
I'm Justin Jackson, former Product Manager at Sprintly, and I've just re-launched my best selling book Marketing for Developers (previously featured here on Indie Hackers). You can see the website here: https://devmarketing.xyz
Over the next couple of days, I'll be answering questions here.
Ask me anything! Product marketing, validating an idea, the Lean Marketing Stack, finding new promotion channels, or being a solopreneur.
You can get $10 off the book right now by going here: https://devmarketing.xyz/indie/
Update: the book was featured on Product Hunt today!
https://www.producthunt.com/posts/marketing-for-developers-2-0
What's the most common mistake (in your experience) that developers make when marketing / launching a new product?
The most common mistake: starting with code, or an idea, instead of identifying the group you want to serve. I talked about this here: https://youtu.be/xOapCnFFrFk
The second most common mistake: building something that people need, instead of building something people want. There's a video about this here: https://youtu.be/OgZhIWquqiw
Developers are (typically) among the more well compensated professions. While that's great, it means the opportunity costs are also greater. How much can/should a developer outsource versus learn marketing on their own?
tl;dr – Developers should have a solid understanding of product and marketing. Once they have that, they can DIY, or, team up with someone else!
One of the worst things we've done in the product dev process, is we've gotten in the habit of just giving developers specs.
Traditionally, companies hide the "why" behind product decisions.
I think this is a shame because developers are some of the most creative problem solvers I know.
The purpose of the book was to give programmers a good background in product and marketing theory; to help them better understand "the why."
With this foundation, a developer could decide to team up with a product manager, a marketer, or a sales guy – but they'll be able to identify any BS.
I made a video about this: https://youtu.be/zC-Otz1UQ_o
I swear you have a video for every question here. :D
I completely agree. In fact I left my job in product management to tackle this problem. I'm building a tool to get the entire organization involved earlier in the ideation process and make the product prioritization transparent and clear to everyone. If anyone is on a product team using Slack, would love your feedback on our MVP as we try to fix this industry wide problem.
https://vspr.ai/beta-signup-secret/
It depends who is the target market. If the product is for developers, then I would strongly advice AGAINST outsourcing - see my personal experience here: https://www.indiehackers.com/@PovilasKorop/selling-to-developers-ten-lessons-learned-97fda7c81f
But if the audience is from other niche, then you could outsource marketing/sales to a person from THAT particular niche.
You ran a contest/giveaway/raffle type promotion for this relaunch. How'd it do for you? Would you consider it worth the effort?
Yes!
(He's referring to this: https://devmarketing.xyz/contest/)
I teamed up with ContestKit for this one. It's an app that allows you to create virtual "scratch and win" tickets.
It was cool because it had built-in virality. People would tweet to get more plays: https://twitter.com/CrispinHeneise/status/905081608675483648
So far, I've had 691 people register with their email address. About 500 of those are people I didn't previously have on my list.
"It's easy for you. You already have, like, a bajillion email subscribers" - haters.
a. Can you walk through the steps you'd take today if you were starting from zero (zero audience, zero trust, zero credibility).
b. How long does all this take to build?
If I was going to start today, from scratch, I would follow these steps:
Find a community of people that I'm passionate about, who are highly incentivized to pay to solve their problems.
For the next 3-6 months, I'd hang out every day in that community: forums, Twitter, Facebook Groups, Reddit threads, Slack groups, local meetups, conferences, Google search results, client work.
I would observe their everyday struggles: what sucks for these people, that could be made easier?
To test my idea, I would offer consulting services around the observed struggle: "I do search optimization for Squarespace sites, so they get more traffic from Google," "I build custom Shopify themes that increase conversion by 10%."
As I do the work manually for clients, I'd look for opportunities to automate it: "How could software help people do this better, faster, and cheaper?"
If it felt like there was an opportunity for software, I'd build an MVP and start using it with my clients.
If the response was good, I'd continue to iterate on the app until it was possible to launch it as a standalone product.
How long does all this take? A long time! ;) But that's the point: the months (or years) that you put in with a particular market create a foundation for what you'll launch in the future.
BTW - I've seen this same process used over and over again. I've used it. Brennan Dunn is doing this right now with RightMessage. Paul Jarvis has used a similar strategy with Fixtail.
Love this:
"How long does all this take? A long time! ;) But that's the point: the months (or years) that you put in with a particular market create a foundation for what you'll launch in the future."
Is there a marketing channel/strategy beyond content marketing that you see being more popular in the future, or are experimenting with right now, or interested in being a first-mover into? (content marketing being defined here as blog posts, medium posts, podcasts, youtube).
YES!
The most underrated channel right now (especially for SaaS) is SEO. Nothing beats people searching for something with the intent to solve their problem. They're ready to buy! (I'm doing a bootcamp on this soon: https://tinymarketingwins.com/seo/)
On-location sales demos can be really effective. Again, Brennan is doing this with RightMessage, and is doing really well with it. James Kennedy, at RubberStamp, is doing online demos, and is converting a lot of those calls.
If you're trying to build a personal brand, leaving comments is an awesome strategy. Comments are the #1 currency for bloggers, YouTubers, and podcasters. They often link back to your website, and they show your avatar (which you want people to recognize).
In my other book, Jolt, I highlight the effectiveness of unique, unexpected, and surprising tactics. https://justinjackson.ca/jolt For example, it's unusual to get anything fun in the mail these days. Sending fans/clients/prospects stickers in the mail is a great way to stand out (Wes Bos is the master of this).
Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm a happy customer of your course, and your interactive advice has been gold. 😉
I think you nailed the sweet spot for developers who want to go solo. Keep hustling, Justin!
Thanks so much! Your encouragement means a lot to me.
It's motivating seeing you hustle, Justin!
Thank you Charles!
I really like your teaching videos (the Marketing for developers course, your YouTube videos). Do you have some advice for someone just starting creating their first course? How do you reach the desired presentation quality? How do you validate people would want to purchase your course, especially if there are competing products / free resources?
Thanks!
First, let's observe some other folks who are having success with courses: Wes Bos (Learn Node), Adam Wathan (Refactoring to Collections), Jeffrey Way (Laracasts).
What pattern emerges?
Like it or not, launching an independent course relies tremendously on having a strong personal brand.
Wes and Adam (and I) rely a lot on Twitter. We're always sharing what we're learning, secrets we just discovered, and what we're working on.
We've also all used blogs, podcasts, YouTube videos, and most importantly, email newsletters to grow our audience. That's the key.
People buy courses from people they know, like, and trust. You'll need to build a certain level of notoriety before you can launch.
More quick tips:
Create a landing page for your course now. If you can get to 500 signups, you'll know you're onto something! (More on this here: https://youtu.be/YaHXZT6RNs8)
Start making video tutorials and screencasts. Release your best ones on YouTube.
You can also practice by volunteering to speak at meetups on your topic.
Get a good mic, screencasting software, webcam, and course host. Here are the tools I use: https://justinjackson.ca/tools
Awesome, thanks for the advice, Justin!
Hi Justin!
One question: can a facebook or Instagram account count as a Landing page? I Think that it would be easier for my audience to see me there.
You should have a domain name + website associated with your brand.
Having a website is the bare minimum for legitimizing yourself as a trustworthy brand.
Your website is also the one thing that you have in your control (you don't need to worry about Facebook changing their policies).
It doesn't need to be fancy (it could be a simple, one-page site created with https://carrd.co).
There are a few other disadvantages to using FB / IG as your primary home on the web:
It makes collecting email addresses way harder. A "follower" or "fan" isn't as valuable as an email address. Optimize for having a mailing list.
On Instagram, you can't easily post links. You get one link in your profile, and that's it.
Facebook doesn't allow you to reach all of your Page's fans organically. You'll need to buy ads for that.
Getting organic search traffic is more effective (and generally, easier) when you control the website.
If you use FB / IG, you'll be stuck with their analytics + tools. When you control the website, you can use anything!
When launching an app (a game in my case) would you share (and market) using links to a landing page or directly to the app store?
I see benefits to both approaches, but I'm not sure which one is better for me.
I think you should do both.
For example, when I'm posting on Twitter about a recent launch, I'll often link directly to the "buy now" page in the store:
https://twitter.com/mijustin/status/905561911151837184
This approach makes sense on Twitter, because most of the folks who follow me are already fans. They're more ready to buy than a stranger.
However, if someone hears about me on a podcast, I'm still a stranger to them. They might need to visit my website a few times, and read my blog posts, before they can trust me.
That's what your website is for; to build trust with strangers.
Thanks for the advice. In my mind this was an "or" situation. I still have to work on my marketing mindset.
How do you market yourself which also shows your business prowess along with development skills? I believe a developer has to understand business decisions and why certain decisions about products are made.
Clients I work with only come to know about my such skills after they start working with me, how do I market it before and portray myself as not a mere developer.
Case studies!
Case studies are the most underrated marketing tool out there. If you've done work with a client that goes beyond software development, write up a case study about it.
Include:
What was their struggle?
What outcomes were they looking for?
How did you help them?
What outcomes did you give them?
If you can, publish these case studies as blog posts and link to them from your homepage too. In WordPress, I create a blog category called "Case Studies" and then link to that.
Once you have this asset, you can use these customer success stories to pitch new clients.
This is really helpful @mijustin. Never thought about it. I was designing my resume as I type, I should get started on designing case studies right after that!! Thanks a lot!
Thanks for great answers @mijustin! Very helpful.
What tips will you give for marketing yourself as a consultant?
Yes! Most of the principles I talk about in the book still apply.
Remember: it's all about understanding your customer. This means face-to-face time, asking questions.
You're trying to figure out:
What task(s) do they want to achieve?
What stands in their way?
What outcomes are they looking for?
How do you organize your information?
I have an "Ideas" board in Trello.
For planning, I have a "To Do" board in Trello.
I take almost all of my notes in Apple Notes. If I get an idea in the shower, that's where I write it.
For research, bookmarking, I use Pocket.
For collaborative writing, I use Google Docs. Here's an example:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C6EFHulcgFUhfapQclJHsLaDjskU_U4NMBELdF3lIik/edit?usp=sharing