Ask IH: How do you deal with the Cycle of Despair?
Launching a product (and subsequently trying to find product-market-fit) is a successive process of solving a thousand small problems as well as overcoming a thousand hurdles, large and small. Even if I have all the time in the world, self-doubt and lack of motivation is a real threat to derailing the indie dream.
How to you deal with self-doubt, or anything along the way that threatens to hijack the process? Furthermore, the lack of income (due to lack of success) is a double-whammy.
The first thing you do when you wake up is you go for your phone.....don't do that (phone = potential problems/ worries)
Take 5-10 mins and just relax before you get out of bed, just be still.
I like to start the day by holding my face in a big bowl of water and ice. I try to hold for 30 seconds for 6-10 intervals. It immediately wakes me up both mentally and physically, I always feel refreshed after doing it.
I then make myself a coffee/ green tea while spending time talking with my wife about the day ahead.
I usually start my 'working' day around 7am, around an hour after I get up.
I was only thinking last week about self-doubt and how it's incredibly lonely working as a solo founder. I've started to realise that I need to embrace the bad days.
It's easy to be hard on yourself when you're a solo founder because if the product isn't making any money then you've nobody else to blame but yourself. I launched a design marketplace a few months ago http://mousecrafted.com and had set myself massive targets ($1,000 in the first month).... I made less than $25. I was so annoyed at myself and genuinely felt like quitting when in month 2 I had only made $48. I kept looking at the competitors, they were getting nearly 250K hits a month to their marketplace and were in all likely making a ton more than me. This was true they were doing better than me but what I realised was they were in the game a LOT longer, some of them were around 8 years ago, I was only 3 months in and was comparing myself to these guys. In all likelihood, they were in my shoes when they first started out. So, I'm learning to be less hard on myself, set realistic goals and spend less time focused on my competitors and more focus on my product.
Take it day by day my man, hang in there and it will fall into place. Just keep chipping away and remember why you launched in the first place.
Damn. This sounds crazy. It's also hard to believe (note - I'm a very naive person). Isn't your face super red after doing that? Do you prepare new ice every evening before you go to sleep, so it's frozen when you get up? Genuinely interested, thanks.
I take the last minute of my morning shower ice cold. It has been probably 4 years since I've started doing this. Life changing! :)
haha no my face doesn't get super red but it does get super cold.
I'm not looking for frostbite so I only put a handful of ice in the bowl :D
My fridge has an ice mchine so it's pretty straight forward.
Solid advice and I you're right, it is very lonely as a solo founder.
"Exercise daily" is a big one. Made a big difference for me once I started implementing it. Also, try to get feedback from peers regularly. A positive comment (or even a constructive one) will go a long way in validating your efforts.
Fred you are awesome!! :)
Thank you! :)
The real problem is this: You can solve most of these by not just launching some project you had an idea for, but building something which solves a pain that people already pay for.
And then you can even presell it (or at least announce it and collect emails for the launch).
Getting real results gives you certainty and income.
The other stuff regarding exercise, eating healthy and having a positive mindset helps, but why even get into such painful cycle of building something that maybe nobody wants to pay for in the first place?
Check out this thread for ressources: https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/how-to-differentiate-7a4b6d537e
Hey Dominik, I think that's great advice. The only problem I have with it is finding the users to validate your idea.
I mentioned in another thread that it seems there are 2 ways: (1) spend money to make money with ads, or (2) try to find communities that you can post to for free, at the risk of spamming.
It seems difficult to me to justify spending large amounts of money on advertising and validation because of so many failed attempts, and the difficulty of hitting the right message with advertising. It seems equally difficult to find communities that are engaged and don't label you a spammer for talking about products.
I'm not trying to sound negative. I really want to find a way to do this effectively.
The advice in that article was great. For example, traveling to other countries has really highlighted how local/language problems can be solved in their own way.
Have you read the articles about sales Safari? See my comment in the thread about differentiation. That also solves your Problem of getting your first customers without any budget. You cannot safari people without being able to directly reach them for free :) Also check out the ama on indiehackers with @alexhillman and @amyhoy
Reading helps me a lot. Especially stories about people, companies, founders, businesses, challenges...etc. Reading sparks new thoughts, which lead to new inspiration/ideas..which leads to revived optimism and energy :D
I've reached a limit on how much helpful reading these thig is for me. Right now I consider it a waste of time, too much different culture, stories, life path, etc..
It all depends how you interpret any story you read. You can't take anything from anyone at face value. If you disagree with something that worked for someone, that's great! It will only sharpen your POV and inspire you to take a different approach. Plus, if you try to read with deeper empathy for the author or characters in the story—it feels much less like it's a waste of time and more of a fascinating journey into their world. And that usually leads to inspiration or at least sparks some interesting thoughts. Currently almost done with the book 'Founders at Work' and it's been really fun and inspiring.
I partially agree with you. Learning is not only reading or get more example for my POV, like you said, but also apply what I've learned in my reality. Many articles on IH are "50k for months doing X" are inspiring, also when they tell about difficulties and how to overcome them, but on the same way are a "waste" because does not give me any clues on how to advance.
I mean, the mantra of lean movement whasn't remove waste? Push into your head many different stories, after a bit sound to me like a waste.
Do you reached this limite too ?
I hear you. It's definitely not good to ONLY read, listen, watch what others are doing. That would def be a waste. You always have to take action! But I guess, in context of this thread, when you are feeling low, reading/listening to others' stories and thoughts helps. Not always literally telling you how to advance. But giving you different perspectives that may inspire new thinking. And the time you take for inspiration and creativity can feel like a waste. It's often not a linear or efficient path to find insights and inspiration.
One thing at least for me that helps is just always knowing that the successful people talking about their stories are not much different, smarter or luckier than I am (ok maybe some luckier :) ). Take it from the quote from Steve Jobs..
Understood, so my quote (from myself) is "your time is limited, use it wisely" :D
Maybe other people are just doing and not only luckier :D
👍👍🙌
I've been having a hard time on this lately and can fully empathize.
It's a bit of a long post, but I just wanted to share my story.
I started my company about 2.5 years ago and pour all of my savings in it.... After 6 months me and my co-founder split, our lead developer left without finishing the job (3months work down the sink) which all left me with an emotional drag for the 3 months to come.
I decided to continue.
2 months from the brink of bankruptcy I raised some money from friends and angels and found a CTO ready to work for sweat equity.
Unfortunately, I ended up spending a year doing the wrong thing: building before validating.
Mostly distracted by personal problems and dealing with a CTO who acted more as a freelancer than a co-founder. He kept his gigs and instead of working part-time he was just pulling a few hours a week, and I wasn't assertive enough because I felt I had no option.
As a solo founder I've found it easy to fall in the loop of despair, trying to solve infinite chicken-and-egg problems: "I need money but I don't have a co-founder, but I need money to recruit people to build the product etc", "I need users but I need the supply side to provide the service but I don't have money to pay them or users to give them etc...."
LESSON LEARNED: don't start a startup just out of passion, which service you don't have the skills to provide, and which product you can't build yourself! ^_^
Little by little, slowly but steady, I have been solving a chicken and egg problem after the other, still a many left, but the progress feels good. I've found people that cared more about the problem than the money, and are happy to provide free counseling, and I created and MVP putting together existing apps (I know! I had to this on day 1 not 450...)
Fast forward a year, I am again at the brink of bankruptcy.
On the other hand, I have a product that people are using and is having an impact (wemby.co: we provide mental health support matching therapist to organization's employees).
I am still a solo founder (by the way looking for co-founders!) and feel the burden every day, but at least now I've got some traction, a small team of dedicated people, ready to work without salary until we have the cash.
It wouldn't be difficult to find a nice paying job and pull the plug, but I really believe that what we are doing, makes a difference in people's lives (user interviews can be powerful). For this I will continue to drag myself forward until this becomes sustainable.
My mission: to make mental health available, accessible and de-stigmatized: a counselor in every pocket, to help you when you need it!
I'm preparing my fund-raising and I'm ready to go work in a bar if necessary, until we rise or we bootstrap to profitability!
By the way, I wanted to thank this community! Your stories have been a source of positive energy. It always helps to see there are others out there facing similar challenges and holding on! May we all succeed! :)
Great question.
My advice is to build a feedback loop.
When I started out I used realtime Google Analytics and Intercom as my motivation. To see X number of people are visiting your site and to be able to talk to the first number of users/leads creates a feeling of 'hey, I'm having an impact' however small.
This should provide the fuel to keep pushing forward.
Pick a successful product you know and search for their launch on Hacker News or Reddit. Half the thread will be naysayers saying how it's useless or there's no market or 'it does not seem very "viral" or income-generating' (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224).
Often they're right but sometimes they're terribly wrong. Your job, as an entrepreneur, is to create something that proves any doubters (including yourself) terribly wrong.
Well said! Also this link is awesome! Endure.. what will look like your idea in 10 years ?
I think there's some generic advice, and then there's advice specific to the problem you face right now.
The generic stuff:
Get some exercise daily. I'm not in great shape, but since I don't have a day job, I try to walk and/or jog every day or so.
Try podcasts for inspiration (probably already there since you're on IH). Listen to and read about failures before success.
Have a hobby to change gears when you're feeling despair, overwhelm, etc.
A more specific example:
For me, this happens because I'm not getting feedback. I struggle to find ways to get people to try out my apps. Online communities seem like a great way to ask people to help you figure out what direction your app should go in, but I struggle even to find friends to take a serious look.
I plan to try harder on reddit or other sites with communities.
I think the more open/honest/authentic you seem, the more likely people are to respond, and having community is one of the harder parts of building stuff. Or maybe a cofounder :)
Side note: I think it'd be cool if there were an IH chat. Would love to feed off energy from others more actively.
Or IH master classes or entrepreneur groups that commit to each other and follow through :)
I strongly believe that live chat helps communities to connect.
I'm actually working on an embeddable multi-user chat for websites: https://chatter.network
I'm planning to post about it in more detail in a few weeks =)
There's https://wip.chat, but the pricing is off-putting for someone not earning USD. Would be great if @csallen could pull off a version of wip.chat for Indie Hackers!
I'm doing StartupSchool now, which provides some sort of accountability for 10 weeks. After that, need to setup something else perhaps.
Ah yeah, $20/mo is a lot when you're early in an idea. But maybe that price would help us both :) Not going to find out any time soon haha
Even a slack channel would be cool. But I'd definitely prefer small accountability groups where you learn and work with others and help them through specific problems!
I started a social discord group for indie software developers last month. Currently sitting at 11 members but it's active. Can send an invite if you want
I've come to realize one of the causes of self-doubt is allowing ourselves to be intimidated by the success of those who've gone before us in the field we're trying to break even.
You look at your efforts, sacrifices etc and compare that to what you consider as the output/success; nothing much- nothing to be truly proud of. You look at others in the same space and all you hear are the rosy stories of success. Self-doubt sets in and man, you feel like quitting.
But rather than allowing ourselves to be intimidated by the success of peers, we should take their success as a source of knowledge and inspiration for our own work. If they made it to the other side of the road, we can, with a little persistence.
This is a simple and common problem which is not solved easily. I think all you can do is decreasing the number of occurrences despair and self doubt occurs and their intensity.
How to do that? Well I'm always trying to improve my life in general to feel better, with more energy. What I noticed is: more energy you have, more you feel good, less sadness, anxiety and stress can act on you.
To feel better overall I just try to get some good habits and see if it improves my mood and perspectives. I see that as experiments. I like to try new thing, it's less boring than staying in your own routine.
To do so I'm using the app Loop Habit Tracker on Android.
Here's my routine:
Morning:
Wake up everyday at 5
30min / 40min of callisthenic / stretch
20 min of meditation
30 min writing on my technical blog
Going to work
Evening:
30 / 50 min of sport (running one day on two)
1 / 2 hours working on side projects
With all of that I:
Stopped drinking
Stopped smocking
Stopped eating non-natural sugar
Stopped coffee
I do that for almost 2 years and it improves my mood in crazy ways. You might think that I'm just torturing myself but keep in mind that I did all of that little by little, just by trying.
If after one month of try nothing change (or the change is not positive), I don't have to continue. If something change in a good way, I'm happy to continue.
Now if you could only take two things out of that is:
Meditation
Doing sport
Since I have these habits I feel better overall and since I feel better, doubt and despair are way less intense and often than before.
Last thing: all of that is very personal. Do your own experiments is the best advice I can give.
How do you find inspiration to write on the spot? Isn't it usually that someone is inspired irregularly, sits down and writes a cool article? Can you maybe link your blog? Thanks.
Hey Michał,
Here's my blog: https://web-techno.net/
I try to be very attentive to everything. I'm a web developer and I blog about web development. When I disagree with somebody at work for example I can try to explain my point in an article. If another developer change my mind about something, I try to write about it as well. If I read an interesting article but I see that the author doesn't go deep enough, I try to do so to bring more knowledge.
I have the habit to write every morning during the week for 30min or more.
I like to help and I like web development. I like to write in english.
I write all my article ideas on Trello. In general I take note of every ideas I have, whatever the content. Most of the time they are pretty bad, but if you keep doing it, it generates even more new ideas.
Right now I have something like 30 ideas in the pipeline. I can write articles for quite some time.
Thank you for replying
Do you have a friend who is an entrepreneur (and open to being vulnerable)? Communities like IH help, but I've found that meeting up in person (or having a phone call) is an important release valve. I text almost daily with a fellow Indie Hacker. Today he reminded me to be patient!
I’m really thankful to have come across this post... I am currently working on a sideline project that’s been active for a few years without substantial income. With a family life it’s difficult to find in-person meetup opportunities, so I think I need to find an online community of peers.
Anyhow, I’m working on an IoT product in the Ag space and while I once had a partner and it was great on some level, it fell apart so I now crave having people to chat with about projects... it certainly gets lonely figuring things out alone day in and day out.
agree w/ all the self-care advice, and would add: always have a plan, even if it's just a small weekly one that you regularly adjust. it's a lot easier to look to the plan on the bad days and just execute. and probably good to stay away from making decisions on those days.
It also worries me. There are so many unknowns and I may never end up finish building what I envisioned.
But I have a backup plan. If I end up not achieving my objectives for whatever reason, I could ask for a job at like Adobe by showcasing my work experience in my work.