September 20, 2018

Do you apply reverse charge to B2B customers?

I can’t get my head around letting B2B customers insert their VAT ID and thus apply the reverse charge mechanism.

IMHO, the reverse charge mechanism had sense before having the VAT MOSS scheme, otherwise you would have had to register in every country.

Now, with VAT MOSS, I do not see the advantage of applying reverse charge to B2B customers, if you’re already selling also to B2C.

So, what would happen if I treat a B2B customer as a B2C sale?

My price for a e-service subscription is let’s say 20€ including VAT.

The VAT % included in the 20€, is calculated after checkout based on the 3 pieces of evidence (IP, address country, card country).

The B2B customer, most likely does want to have somewhere written on his invoice his VAT ID number so he can claim the paid VAT back.

  • The question for me is, am I legally obliged to actually apply reverse charge once the valid VAT ID is on the customers invoice?

  • If I am obliged to apply reverse charge once I have the VAT ID of a B2B customer, how big of a deal is it in your experience to not let B2B customers to enter their VAT ID at all?

If you still want to dig further of why I’m asking this:
I want to offer VAT inclusive pricing for my SaaS subscription using Stripe. Currently, there is no way in Stripe to deduct the VAT % from the final price, if the customer enters a valid VAT ID number; so to apply reverse charge. Thus I’m thinking to circumvent the issue by treating it as a B2C sale, adding the VAT ID number of the customer only as a “note” and not actually use it to deduct the VAT on the final price.
The question is therefore if that is legally possible?
So basically instead of having (e.g. VAT rate = 20%):

  • B2C = 20€ VAT inclusive
  • B2B (with valid VAT ID) = 16,67€ (VAT exclusive) applying the reverse charge (which Stripe doesn’t allow me to do)
    I would have:
  • B2C = 10€ VAT inclusive
  • B2B = 10€ VAT inclusive (with somewhere his VAT ID number so he can claim it back)

  1. 1

    I'm not sure if that's the case, but it sounds like you don't understand how reverse charge works. Reverse charge is meant to avoid charging VAT on sale to a business that would, in the end, expect to get that VAT refunded and is located in different country than your business.

    IMHO, the reverse charge mechanism had sense before having the VAT MOSS scheme, otherwise you would have had to register in every country.

    VAT MOSS applies to end customers, not businesses (unless the business is from the same country as your business). See:

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/vat-digital-services-moss-scheme/index_en.htm

    VAT MOSS does not apply to businesses, because you reverse charge invoice them (0% VAT).

    So, what would happen if I treat a B2B customer as a B2C sale?
    how big of a deal is it in your experience to not let B2B customers to enter their VAT ID at all?

    You would charge them VAT, which they expect they shouldn't pay. If I see you have a $100 plan, I'm a business customer and you still charge me $123 (23% VAT rate in Poland), I'll go find another business that handles payments correctly (no hate, just honest opinion :)! ).

    Currently, there is no way in Stripe to deduct the VAT % from the final price

    You should be adding VAT when there's no VAT ID, not the other way around :).

    Also, as a general note - money is where the business is, so if you wanted to "generalize" I would go for serving businesses only, not customers.

    I hope my reply was somewhat useful to you, I don't have a definite answer to:

    am I legally obliged to actually apply reverse charge once the valid VAT ID is on the customers invoice?

    but if the invoice contains VAT ID and the business is from a different EU country, the invoice should simply use reverse charge.

    Final note: not an accountant, always seek advice from a professional. :)

    1. 2

      Thanks for the answer. Sure, I do understand that with B2B (with a valid VAT) you need to deduct VAT from the invoice and do a "Reverse charge"...but what if a web service doesn't allow you to insert your VAT number? Is that a deal-breaker for a business?

      I see so many businesses online clearly targeted to B2B, which do not have any field for VAT number or not even for the Company name.

      1. 1

        While doing my own work I happened to found this and immediately thought of this IH thread :) Here it goes:

        https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/taxation/vat/charging-deducting-vat/index_en.htm

        VAT on invoices
        Normally, if you are registered for VAT and you make sales to other businesses, you must issue a VAT invoice — either in paper or electronic form. VAT is normally added to the price of the goods or services on your invoice.

        Your VAT identification number must be shown on all invoices you give to customers, as well as the amount of VAT being charged and other standard items.

        Exceptions
        There are some exceptions to this rule.

        For example, if you provide a service to another business, that is not located in the same EU country as your company is based, the VAT will not appear on your invoice. This does not mean the service is not subject to VAT, just that the VAT would be accounted for and paid directly by your business partner in the other EU country.

        Similarly, if you make an export of goods to a non-EU country, your invoice will not show VAT. Normally, the buyer in the non-EU country will be subject to importation rules of its country.

        Regarding:

        I see so many businesses online clearly targeted to B2B, which do not have any field for VAT number or not even for the Company name.

        I'd say they are shady businesses. Sooner or later they'll find out. I know Splice doesn't issue invoices (yet serves customers in EU) and there was one cloud provider in Scandinavia, which name I can't recall, that told me they could issue an invoice if I made a significant down-payment (I was interested in pay as you go, so I went with DigitalOcean).

        1. 1

          And finally...

          https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/vat-invoicing-rules_en

          Will paste the important part for your convenience below:

          When is an invoice compulsory?
          An invoice is required for VAT purposes under EU rules in:

          most business-to-business (B2B) supplies
          certain business-to-consumer (B2C) transactions
          There may also be specific national rules on transactions requiring an invoice.

          B2B supplies
          In most cases, invoices must be issued by a business whenever goods or services are supplied to:

          another business; or
          a non-taxable legal entity (local authorities, associations etc. that do not charge VAT).

    2. 1

      Here's more fundamental info about VAT MOSS:

      The mini One Stop Shop comes into force on 1 January 2015 and will allow taxable persons supplying telecommunication services, television and radio broadcasting services and electronically supplied services to non-taxable persons in Member States in which they do not have an establishment to account for the VAT due on those supplies via a web-portal in the Member State in which they are identified.

      Download your PDF guide here:

      https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/telecommunications-broadcasting-electronic-services/content/guide-vat-mini-one-stop-shop-moss_en