This was one of my favorite interviews and products (despite not being in a position to use it). I love a product that takes something manual and automates it. The section on what did and didn't work was great. Thanks.
5
The goal is and always was freedom. First, freedom to conduct business according to our values. More broadly, to live life on our terms. That includes financial independence of course, but it's also about the freedom to structure our lives and routines in healthier ways. The 9-to-5 thing runs roughshod over a lot of natural cadences.
Not a religious person, but Amen.
I've been trying to put into words my definition and motivation for building my company (weardulo.com), but this one got very close!
How are you guys financing the project? I heard it's your side hustle while having full-time jobs. Can you elaborate on how you're striking that balance of working on both fronts and being wary of burnouts
Best!
J.
3
Financing: we each ponied up $1k to open a bank account. But we've charged from day one, and we've been in the black since day one. That's a lot easier, of course, when it's a side hustle and you're not paying founder salaries.
1
Starting your future "workplace" as a side hustle is the most pragmatic approach in my mind as well.
Great job and best of luck with it!
4
Early growth was 100% organic. But what we found is that as we progressed, growth got harder — not easier. There is this founder fallacy that as you grow, everything just starts flowing downhill. We found the opposite to be true: once all of the low-hanging fruit has been picked, the real work of selling starts.
If you're at this stage with your company, take heart. It doesn't (necessarily) mean the market isn't there. It just means you actually have to get good at marketing.
We've watched other startups get lost in the "enterprise sales" forest. It's a trap! That famous company logo you're dying to put on your landing page? That's pride messing with you. Ignore the siren song of prestige, and head down-market. Trust us, it's much nicer down there.
Yes, yes, yes. 👆
Awesome interview, great advice, and an awesome SaaS product. It's funny - I was just recently watching the end credits for a movie and had a fleeting thought along the lines of "I wonder how movie companies make their end credits reel, or if there's a service out there that provides it."
3
Hands down one of the best interviews I've read on Indie Hackers. Great job guys solving a problem and building a business around it! Much success to you guys in the future!
2
Thank you sir. 👊
3
So many good gems here but my favorite is this one:
We've watched other startups get lost in the "enterprise sales" forest. It's a trap! That famous company logo you're dying to put on your landing page? That's pride messing with you. Ignore the siren song of prestige, and head down-market. Trust us, it's much nicer down there.
The SaaS company I work for has a similar philosophy. We charge one flat fee for all customers, unlimited users, and unlimited projects. My favorite part about that is when someone from say a Fortune 500 company tries to seduce us to jump through their hoops we can just be like "Nah, we're good." and have zero regrets about it.
Plus it's just more fair to your customers. Every customer is worth your time when they are all worth the same. I think people are afraid the opposite will happen, but that has not been the case for us.
Fantastic interview, one of the best on this site!
3
Plus it's just more fair to your customers. Every customer is worth your time when they are all worth the same.
Yes! This sense of fairness in your dealings is a good and underrated one. It's also a nice simplifying assumption. You don't have to worry about how to capture the (different) value you've created for each customer that comes along. You don't have to worry about every customer relationship turning into a negotiation. It's just a simple take-it-or-leave-it. Maybe the "leave it" part is the scary one for people?
In our case, @pliny knew the psychology of indie filmmakers from his decade in the business, and knew the slightest whiff of price flexibility would invite endless bargaining. So we had to stay firm on price. No exceptions or the word would get out. It’s had a bunch of the other nice benefits that you allude to, and that we hadn't fully anticipated.
2
What SaaS company are working for that charges flat fees? I thought we were pretty unique in this regard but I'd love to hear about other cases.
Great stuff. How did you arrive at $500/$1000 for the pricing?
2
Thanks!
I wish I could answer "rigorous experimentation" to this one, but the truth is closer to "intuition".
The cheapest end roller services I was seeing at the time were around $1,500 from freelance title designers. $500 seemed like a solid number for a self-serve, automated alternative.
In corporate settings, $500 is often the max that you can swipe with a credit card before you have to go through more elaborate procurement procedures.
this was super insightful. if you wrote that book on all the marketing experiments that you've ran, i'd read it. at what stage did you organize a board of advisers? and, in retrospect, when did should have done it?
2
Just started being more organized about the BoA this year. We've always had informal advisors/friends of the court. But it can be useful to put some structure in place where the advisor owes you a hard deliverable (monthly call, strategic introductions).
1
appreciate the reply. thanks, john!
3
Excellent interview! As someone who used to work at a movie theatre, end credits were always a fun/interesting thing to look at.
2
Thanks! Lucky for us, filmmakers are also the type who stay until the end of the credits.
2
Fantastic interview, and fantastic product.
The question that nags me is what are the other things filmmakers do that are part of the "poorly automated chaos engines." : - ).
2
We started charging on day one. There is no value in learning that someone would gladly use your product for free.
This is just awesome advice! I've printed it out and hung it on the wall of my office.
1
Thanks! Very much not original with us, but it was an approach we have never regretted.
2
I always find it interesting to hear how an MVP was made and to find out what it actually consists of. It's far too easy to overcomplicate things at the beginning.
Great interview! Thanks for sharing your journey.
2
Thanks for the feedback! And yes, premature optimization is the root of all sorts of evils.
1
Great interview! Tons of nuggets, and I really appreciate your writing style. Maybe one day write a book about your experiences? Thanks.
1
Thanks for the kind words! No books on the horizon, but always happy to chat with people right here on IH.
This was one of my favorite interviews and products (despite not being in a position to use it). I love a product that takes something manual and automates it. The section on what did and didn't work was great. Thanks.
Not a religious person, but Amen.
I've been trying to put into words my definition and motivation for building my company (weardulo.com), but this one got very close!
How are you guys financing the project? I heard it's your side hustle while having full-time jobs. Can you elaborate on how you're striking that balance of working on both fronts and being wary of burnouts
Best!
J.
Financing: we each ponied up $1k to open a bank account. But we've charged from day one, and we've been in the black since day one. That's a lot easier, of course, when it's a side hustle and you're not paying founder salaries.
Starting your future "workplace" as a side hustle is the most pragmatic approach in my mind as well.
Great job and best of luck with it!
Yes, yes, yes. 👆
Awesome interview, great advice, and an awesome SaaS product. It's funny - I was just recently watching the end credits for a movie and had a fleeting thought along the lines of "I wonder how movie companies make their end credits reel, or if there's a service out there that provides it."
Hands down one of the best interviews I've read on Indie Hackers. Great job guys solving a problem and building a business around it! Much success to you guys in the future!
Thank you sir. 👊
So many good gems here but my favorite is this one:
The SaaS company I work for has a similar philosophy. We charge one flat fee for all customers, unlimited users, and unlimited projects. My favorite part about that is when someone from say a Fortune 500 company tries to seduce us to jump through their hoops we can just be like "Nah, we're good." and have zero regrets about it.
Plus it's just more fair to your customers. Every customer is worth your time when they are all worth the same. I think people are afraid the opposite will happen, but that has not been the case for us.
Fantastic interview, one of the best on this site!
Yes! This sense of fairness in your dealings is a good and underrated one. It's also a nice simplifying assumption. You don't have to worry about how to capture the (different) value you've created for each customer that comes along. You don't have to worry about every customer relationship turning into a negotiation. It's just a simple take-it-or-leave-it. Maybe the "leave it" part is the scary one for people?
In our case, @pliny knew the psychology of indie filmmakers from his decade in the business, and knew the slightest whiff of price flexibility would invite endless bargaining. So we had to stay firm on price. No exceptions or the word would get out. It’s had a bunch of the other nice benefits that you allude to, and that we hadn't fully anticipated.
What SaaS company are working for that charges flat fees? I thought we were pretty unique in this regard but I'd love to hear about other cases.
tons of them out there... canny.io is one
Great stuff. How did you arrive at $500/$1000 for the pricing?
Thanks!
I wish I could answer "rigorous experimentation" to this one, but the truth is closer to "intuition".
The cheapest end roller services I was seeing at the time were around $1,500 from freelance title designers. $500 seemed like a solid number for a self-serve, automated alternative.
In corporate settings, $500 is often the max that you can swipe with a credit card before you have to go through more elaborate procurement procedures.
Related, I really enjoy the pricing-related content that comes from Price Intelligently. Recommended: https://www.priceintelligently.com/blog/topic/value-based-pricing
this was super insightful. if you wrote that book on all the marketing experiments that you've ran, i'd read it. at what stage did you organize a board of advisers? and, in retrospect, when did should have done it?
Just started being more organized about the BoA this year. We've always had informal advisors/friends of the court. But it can be useful to put some structure in place where the advisor owes you a hard deliverable (monthly call, strategic introductions).
appreciate the reply. thanks, john!
Excellent interview! As someone who used to work at a movie theatre, end credits were always a fun/interesting thing to look at.
Thanks! Lucky for us, filmmakers are also the type who stay until the end of the credits.
Fantastic interview, and fantastic product.
The question that nags me is what are the other things filmmakers do that are part of the "poorly automated chaos engines." : - ).
This is just awesome advice! I've printed it out and hung it on the wall of my office.
Thanks! Very much not original with us, but it was an approach we have never regretted.
I always find it interesting to hear how an MVP was made and to find out what it actually consists of. It's far too easy to overcomplicate things at the beginning.
Great interview! Thanks for sharing your journey.
Thanks for the feedback! And yes, premature optimization is the root of all sorts of evils.
Great interview! Tons of nuggets, and I really appreciate your writing style. Maybe one day write a book about your experiences? Thanks.
Thanks for the kind words! No books on the horizon, but always happy to chat with people right here on IH.