August 5, 2018

How long do tough times last?

This is not a cry for help. I know that tough times don't last and I will keep going no matter what.

I just wanted to share what I've been going through this past year with someone (preferably a stranger) and Indie Hackers seems like a very supporting community.

3 years ago I decided to move back home (Albania) after having spent 7 years in the United States. Got my bachelor's degree and 3 years of working experience in Computer Science.

From work and side-projects I had $60K in savings, a good amount of money to start a business. Before investing them, I wanted to make sure that my business idea would be profitable. So I gave the $60K to my father (he has a currency exchange store) and I started working on my project on my own, from my childhood bedroom.

After 2 years, my project was bringing in $3-4K each month. Now it was the perfect time to invest. So I got a small office, renovated it and hired 3 more developers. I didn't even had to touch my $60K and I still had money to cover the expenses for the next few months. Sounded like heaven, right? Well, it lasted only 1 month.

  1. This exact time last year, a fraud / robbery happened at my father's exchange store. He lost $170K in only 10 seconds. His lifetime savings and my $60K, poof, gone just like that. I didn't care that much about the money. I cared about him. I even gave him the money I had put aside after setting up my team (around $10K). I was solely relying on the money my business was bringing in.

My father didn't take it that easy though. He started drinking heavily. He would come home and fight with my mother for no reason. He thought we were blaming him for what happened.

  1. Due to the stress and excessive drinking, in January my father was diagnosed with cancer in his liver. I have to see him everyday lose weight, suffer due to the medication and cancer itself. My father was in military. I grew up with the idea that he was the strongest and biggest man in the World. That makes it even harder to see him barely walk now. He's still fighting and at least he stopped drinking.

  2. Cambridge Analytica happened. Since my project relies on Facebook's API, this affected us as well. Facebook blocked access to certain endpoints until a manual (re)review of the app. We're still waiting on them to (re)review our app in order to regain access. Well, users don't wait. We lost 100 paying customers in only one month. Revenues that I was solely relying on, cut in half.

I explained my team the financial situation. I told them I was cutting off my "salary" and I was taking loans in order to not let anyone go. No decrease in wages, or overtime either. I just expected from them to give their maximum for the next months.

Despite all what's going in my personal life, I'm still the first to go to work and the last to leave. Haven't taken any days off since January. I've even let myself go. I've put weight, grown gray hair etc. I had to go to the dentist and I postponed it for months because I couldn't afford it. These have also affected my relationship with my girlfriend as she's not getting the same attention as before.

I was aiming to lead by example, yet, I don't think my team cares. Plenty of meetings, even one-on-one, asking them to do their job properly, come on time, stop wasting time chatting with their friends etc. Two of them even got a notice of termination. On the other hand, the third developer is actually being underpaid.

Should I focus on my family and stop putting my work first? Am I asking my team too much or am I being to nice to them? At the end of the day, they're building my dream and not necessarily theirs, regardless of how good you treat them.

Thanks for reading and I hope you will never end up having to keep both your family and your business from falling apart at the same time.


  1. 6

    Sorry to hear about your struggles! Hope you will be able to recover the business soon. you have built one successful product so you will be able to do it again without any doubt! Also, apparently issues with Facebook platform is not your fault and it is rather expected than not as in any business that depends heavily on the platform.

    I think you should put more attention to yourself and take care of yourself at the first place. you are putting a lot of weight on now but if you have issues with your own health then all others (family and business) will suffer (even if they do not understand it now).

    1. 2

      You're absolutely right. Thanks for the advice. It's clear and I'm aware that I'm missing the long term picture here, but it's very easy to do so given the circumstances.

      If stop what I'm doing now, the others (family and business) will suffer now rather than later.

      One thing is for sure, I need to find a balance sooner than later.

      Cheers.

  2. 3

    Gee , thats quite a story. And I feel very lucky that my own hard times never swung so low. I would just say that in my own lowest time, the company fell apart through to personal differences and I tried to go it alone. I hit rock bottom financially though I had a great product all ready to go. I lost money , respect, friends, and importantly self confidence.

    But the thing I learnt was that you can not let yourself get to zero. Its like having a Ferrari and running out of gas in the desert.

    It sounds to me like you may be running on empty. That is noble, but ultimately you can not help anyone from that situation. You need to look after your own income, health and relationships. Its not selfish to do so, and you need to have the courage to say no even if others don't approve. Thats part of being a leader, taking responsibility and allocating resources where they need to go.

    1. 1

      Maybe not empty, but definitely running with the gas light on and it's not fun haha

  3. 3

    I can empathise with much of your story. LIke yours, my Dad was a career soldier.

    Since I was made redundant just over 10 years ago, life has been pretty rough one way or another. I was determined that I never wanted to work within the corporate environment again. I have been made redundant three times - and the third time was a step too far.

    Over the last decade, I have taught myself to program from zero knowledge. I've taken many wrong turns and built a number of projects which went nowhere.

    In the meantime, I lost my house. I spent 10 months living with my sister and her husband because I had nowhere else to live.

    A friend of long-standing offered me a contract, to which I devoted two years of my life but he had engaged me without the support of his Board of Directors and they refused to back him. He was less than honest with me so I worked for many months in the expectation of payment and eventually, three years ago, had to threaten his company with Court action. As no legal aid is available for such cases, I had to represent myself and hold my nerve in the face of some very threatening and intimidating solicitor's letters.

    In the end, I had to compromise and accept a lower figure than I was seeking but a higher figure than the client had wanted to pay. The law works in such a way that I could win 4 out of 5 points, lose the fifth and still end up out of pocket.

    During that period, while I was still dealing with the stress of the Court case, my Mum, who had been ill with lung cancer for three years, died on 31st, August 2015. My parents lived in Northern Cyprus. I got the news that my mother had collapsed on the Sunday evening and spent the next few hours frantically searching for a flight to Cyprus that I could ill afford.

    As the taxi drew up to my front door the next day, my eldest sister called to tell me that my Mum had died. I had to cut her short in order to get into the taxi and head for the airport. It was a long journey to Larnaca in the south and a longer drive from there to the north. I saw my Mum the next day in the morgue.

    Also during those years, I met my other half. She was also trying to set up in business and I was helping her to do so. She worked part time in a charity shop where she was being abused at work by her manageress and coming home in tears. Despite having no money between us, I told her to leave - and sued the charity. They settled out of Court but the process was a stressful one - although it did help for when I had my own legal problems.

    To survive, my other half and I have sold goods on eBay, sold personal goods at car boot sales and I even worked on an ad hoc basis as an on-call chauffeur for a local businessman - who told me the day before Christmas by means of a curt text that he no longer required my services. The money wasn't much but it paid some of the bills. Two months later, he sent another text asking me if I wanted more work. My pride would not allow him to treat me like a light switch so I sent him a text to say "No".

    My partner has always wanted to write so we spent a lot of time writing and editing her books. Unfortunately, self-published authors cannot keep their mouths shut so, when they discover a niche in the market, they tell everyone else about it via podcasts and blogs and - lo! - are surprised when thousands of wannabe authors swamp that particular market and make it unprofitable. That, by the way, is why I have always politely declined to tell people what my projects are. I'll share when I'm ready and not before.

    Now? We're still very short on money but we believe we have a unique product for a market about which we have learned a great deal. I'm working some stupidly long hours - which is why IH is a break. We had a windfall last summer which meant we were able to leave the very toxic area where we used to live. We lived in rented accommodation and our landlord - a large company - was a nightmare. They lived in the house more than we did and we had a very rough time of it for two years with constant repairs, maintenance that was not performed or was performed so badly the workmen had to come back again and again and a thousand and one other things which led to us having a fruitless meeting with their Board of Directors.

    I was also diagnosed with diabetes, thanks to my partner. She knew something was wrong and insisted I see a doctor. My blood sugar levels were so high that I was kept in hospital for three days while the medical staff tried to bring them under control. My eyes have suffered as a result of the diabetes (so you must exercise and keep your weight under control). They have been lasered multiple times and I have lost count of the number of injections I have had into my eyeballs. I also suffered an acute allergic reaction to an anaesthetic drug during one of the theatre procedures - another night in hospital.

    So life can get very rough. I would not want to relive the last ten years and my partner and I are still not out of the woods - but we will be within a few months, of that we are sure.

    All I can say to you is, "Courage! This too will pass." I know it does not seem like it right now but nothing lasts forever and better times do lie ahead. I cannot promise you that things will not get even worse before they get better but they will eventually improve.

    The key is to have the courage to soldier on; to have the determination to work for your future, come what may and to learn to take happiness in the small things. When life kicks you in the teeth, you learn to differentiate between the false glamour that too many people chase and those things which bring true happiness. For me, that is my partner and my determination to make my own future.

    As for your team, you're right: they are interested only in their own futures. No employee will ever believe in your dream. Don't be surprised or disappointed. They are employees, not soul mates.

    I wish you good luck and courage while you endure the present and hope your fortunes change for the better very soon.

    1. 4

      More power to you all who are going thru the tough time. And thomasm, thanks for this line:

      "No employee will ever believe in your dream. Don't be surprised or disappointed. They are employees, not soul mates."

    2. 1

      Reading your background and story puts things in perspective. Kudos to you and your partner for soldiering along. I assure you that with adversity comes a toughness which behooves success. If you need any help just shout out

    3. 1

      I appreciate sharing your story with me / us and I'm sorry for your loss. I hope it has helped you taking it out of your chest (even if that wasn't your intention) as it did for me.

      Your courage and determination is inspiring. I shouldn't be complaining for one bad year.

      Wish you and your partner the best of luck and I hope you "hit the jackpot" with what you're working for.

      P.S. I'm going for a run after work tomorrow. No excuse!

      1. 2

        Just finished running. Not in the best shape, but did my best.

      2. 2

        You have every right to complain but that is not the same as letting life overwhelm you.

        Reading some of your other comments here, I suspect you do have the courage and determination you need even if it does not feel that way right now.

  4. 3

    Hi Ervin,

    I followed your product from the 1st day you wrote about it here. It's awesome & I wished I thought of it :-).

    I'm very sorry to hear about your struggles. I lost my father to cancer as well so I know how it feels. We can't tell you what to do on that front, but all I can say is I regretted not spending a little more time with him. Cancer can catch you by surprise. One day, everything is going fine, the next day it's going downhill. In a matter of weeks, my father went from being "okay" to passing away.

    I'm not trying to upset you, just sharing my personal experience. Money & business is nice, but close family is priceless.

    On the business side of things:

    You mentioned your profits were cut in half. Has it stagnated since then, or are more customers leaving every day? If that is the case, you may have to prepare for the worst. The question is: does a 4-man team fit in that scenario? Do you need 3 developers to grow a product where customers are dropping faster than you are gaining new ones?

    Firing people is not fun, but it's part of being a founder & CEO. Like you said, they aren't invested in the business as much as you are: they are building your dream. If you fire them, they'll land another job. If you don't fire them, on the other hand, your company might go belly-up and they (and you) lose anyway.

    It's hard to give specific feedback on this, since I don't know your company structure, current logistics, or your roadmap.

    1. 2

      I'm very sorry for your loss. Your regret is my biggest fear right now. I was away from my family for 7 years, and now that I'm back, I spend more time in office than home.

      On the business side of things, luckily customers have stopped leaving. New ones are coming almost every day, but not at the rate I would like.

      Even though the numbers are going up (for good) and are promising, they don't lie. There's not enough room for 4 of us. One needs to go. The problem is that if I let go one of them, it will cost me more in the future to replace him, again assuming the better days will come.

      I can continue the project by myself, but it's clear that without my team the product wouldn't be where it is right now. These guys have been since the "start". (Long story short, we rebuilt my product from scratch using the latest technologies). The new one to come in will need months of training before starting to really contribute to the project.

      We just need one big boost in revenues.

      1. 1

        On the plus side: they're family. They know & understand why you're not around as much as you would like. Trust me, even though you may not see it, your father is proud and knows you'll make it in life. You already have a succesful business to show for it. That doesn't go unnoticed.

        It sounds like your business is recovering well, so that's a very good sign. With that in mind, what about a bank loan to cover a few more months?

        1. 2

          Loans / debt are evil. Once you're in, it's very hard to get out as it keeps sucking you in. I have already taken a loan, not a big one, so another small one may be enough.

          1. 1

            I understand your point. What about making someone a co-founder? They might have some extra cash they can put in the business. Furthermore, you mentioned your developers weren't giving their best. If you ask a developer to be your co-founder, perhaps their attitude might change?

            1. 1

              That's another problem. I have invested so much so far (both time-wise and money-wise) that it may be too late / expensive to bring in a co-founder. Maybe I'm wrong and I do regret not doing so in the very beginning.

              Making one of the developers a co-founder does sound a good idea, but I'm more of a "work hard in order get rewarded" kind of a guy rather then "get rewarded in order to work hard".

              1. 2

                What I understand is you don't want to lose anything yet life strictly demands at least one loss from you. There are times that you lose, maybe it is hard for you to accept it, maybe you should work on accepting it first.

              2. 1

                I understand your struggle but it sounds like you'll have to make a compromise somewhere.

                I'm not sure what you mean by "Expensive to bring in a co-founder". It shouldn't cost you anything, right? It should cost them something :-).

                1. 1

                  Haha yes. It would be expensive for them, not me, and I doubt it will be easy to find someone in Albania willing to put in a lot of money for a product that in Albania has not created a buzz.

                  From all the 1,000 paying customers I've had these past 3 years, only 5 or less are Albanian.

                  Anyways, I think for now I'm going either with a loan or letting one of the guys go, unless a miracle happens haha.

                  1. 2

                    Good luck, Ervin! I hope the tide turns soon for you!

  5. 2

    First off, I wish better days for you ahead. You've definitely gone through a rough patch. FWIW, I cared for my wife's father in our 1BR apartment for 8 mos as he deteriorated from the brain cancer that eventually caused his passing. We also had to run our business, so I feel you. Your questions: "Should I focus on my family and stop putting my work first?" You sound like you have a strong family who needs you. If you don't take care of yourself, you won't be able to help them at all, both in terms of your health and your revenue. (Glad you went running--keep it up!) "Am I asking my team too much or am I being to nice to them?" How you conduct yourself every day is only one part of your leadership profile. Another part of your job as a leader is keeping people excited and motivated beyond the money. "At the end of the day, they're building my dream and not necessarily theirs, regardless of how good you treat them." Are they bought into the vision? It's tough to inspire others when your own emotional reserves are low. Do the best you can, and don't sell your efforts short--in some way, you're helping them build their dreams, too. Any business is a team effort, and loyalty should not flow one way--it's a two-way street. Two more notes: 1) I don't know the situation with banks in Albania, but would if a bank robbery took place, would your money be insured? This was not your fault or your father's fault. Going forward, would "rainy day" funds be better placed in a bank? 2) I agree with your comment that loans are evil. Losing cash reserves is like an accounting error--just hurts for a moment. The real pain will come if you take on too much debt and can't pay down interest or principal. Taking on loans to cover payroll could hurt for a long time--be careful. Would shifting people to part-time save money and maintain morale? Good luck!

    1. 1

      Thank you for your words and motivation.

      My team doesn't know what's going on with my personal life because I want to keep it outside my work.

      You're right. It's hard to be able to motivate people when emotionally you're down.

      It wasn't a bank robbery. Long story short, 2 fraudulent guys tricked my father and exchanged the real money with fake money in just a second. You wouldn't be able to tell it even when looking at the cameras in slow motion.

      Anyways, lesson learned. I'm never lending money to anyone, not even to close family. I would rather invest them, even if I still end up losing them.

  6. 1

    Damn... you are going through some tough times. Not sure I can help you at all, you'll probably have to hang in there until things get better.

    The way I see it, I'm always looking for the win first. If I can get some breathing space financially, I can devote more time on family. Even if I try to spend more time with that, I'm never relaxed because I'm always concerned and anxious about money problems. That's just me, maybe you're not like that, but I think having the finances in order significantly helps every other area of life.

    You know your business better than me, but when you're paying somebody to do a job, I think they should do the job. You sound like you've been fair to your team, if you don't think they're returning the favour you can probably interview other developers.

    Glad to see Balkan people on IH, Macedonian here :).

    Good luck.

    1. 1

      Story of the Balkans. Luck never seems to be on our side haha.

      Cheers mate ;)

  7. 1

    Ervin,

    I'm sorry to hear about your hard times: thank you for confiding and sharing this with us.

    The question you're asking is why do bad things happen? This is a question at the root of many philosophical traditions and belief systems.

    This is a question we all ask, yet it reflects what psychologists might refer to as recency bias. A person diagnosed with an illness, suddenly forgets the decades of care-free health they enjoyed. Likewise, a sudden downturn in fortune, makes people forget all the privileges they have enjoyed. How many people in Albania can claim to have had a US education, amassed $60k in savings, and to run their own company earning in dollars?

    You're gonna get through this, and come out stronger, yet its a great opportunity for reflection.

    Do you know what you want from life?

    4k a month, is enough to meet any mans need, especially in Albania. Yet you were driven by more == better? Did this assumption prove true.

    Also you put your eggs in one basket:

    1.) You could have given 40k to your father and looked after the rest.

    2.) Why hire 3 developers in one go, do it more slowly.

    3.) Never rely on a single point of failure, yet this was bound to happen when you rely on a single provider to produce value for your project.

    4.) Instead of saving some money initially, you bet big. Like a gambler who refuses to bank any winnings.

    Also why commit to people who arn't committed to you. It's not fair you forgo your salary, while workers steadily collect a check.

    I would say, think deeply about what you want in life? Why are you committed to building a very large company, when you could have a nice lifestyle with income earned in dollars working for yourself or a smaller team. What is the value of money, at the expense of family and health?

    More quantitatively (i.e 500k annual revenue) !== better qualitatively (60k annual income, time and location freedom, and no difficult people to manage)

    1. 1

      You really made me reflect, but deep down I think I already know the answers to these questions.

      I don't regret hiring 3 developers in one go. Even if the project gets suspended (for financial reasons), it is a finished product and it can sustain itself until more sales come in. If it happens, only its development will be suspended. If I hadn't hired 3 developers at once, I'm pretty sure we would now have an unfishined project that probably wouldn't even sell.

      I had everything planned. I had put money aside (besides from my famous $60K) in case we would hit a few tough months (as we now are), money that I gave to my father in order to recover somehow from the fraud / robbery. Anyone in my position would have done the same. Just to be clear. I don't blame my father for anything that has happened. He paid for my education in the US (which is a lot) and has sacrificed more than I will ever do. When I was little he would put us on the bus and he would walk home just to save a few cents. He doesn't owe me anything.

      Back to my team. I'm aware that the project wouldn't be where it is right now if it wasn't for all of us. It would be selfish and not true to say that I did it. Maybe they lost motivation. They're young and it's the summer season. I was at their age and sure has hell wasn't giving my 100% when working for someone else, especially during the summer.

      Moving back home and investing in this project was never about the money. I had a nice life in Texas and would probably be making a lot more by now, but that became a routine and no longer exciting. I wanted to get out of the comfort zone. As fictitious as it sounds, I wanted to do something for my own country.

      There are a lot of people here who want to leave the country for a better life. I want to become an inspiration for the others and hopefully change the lives for a few. My ultimate goal is to place Albania on the map. I want people to say that yes, this product was made in Albania. I don't care about getting rich or having expensive cars. What I'm trying to leave behind is a legacy.

      A lot of people I know have tried moving back home after having built a life abroad and failed. 2-3 years laters they moved back to where they came from. My ego wants to prove them wrong.

      Last but not least, as superstitious as I am, I think I know the answer to why do bad things happen. We were doing too good and somehow life finds a way to balance that in one way or another. My brother was getting married and someone must have jinxed us at the wedding. She's a relative and my father caught her pushing candles of a little bridge with her feet on purpose.

      It all went downhill from that night. The question I don't know the answer for is, where's the bottom of this hill?