June 26, 2018

I FINALLY shipped a fully working SaaS! Feedback?

So this has been a huge personal milestone for me. We finally shipped https://seyoh.com after hacking away on it for 3 months. It's like Yoast but for non-wordpress.

We had grander plans for it wanting to act more like a content management system for system for agencies that produce a lot of content, but we had to cut the project down to the absolute minimum thing we could actually ship because building all by yourself just takes so damn long.

I would love any and all feedback if you have any! Honest feedback is best. Brutally honest is good too :)

This project has been a huge learning experience for me and many thanks to the IH community for helping me keep my head up some days. I think we did many things wrong on this project, the biggest thing being not doing any research before building, the second being drastically underestimating the real amount of work / time needed to actually ship a fully operational SaaS in Java/Spring.

For everything I've ever read, every podcast I've ever listened to and every video I have ever watched nothing taught me as much as fast as actually just doing things. Also that knowledge perhaps didn't do me much good considering the amount of mistakes we made but the lessons learned from this experience are burned deep into my thinking now.

The next phase of this project will not to be add more features and hope/pray but to do the research we should have done up front and see if we can pull this thing in a direction that the market wants.


  1. 16

    Congrats on shipping, James! That's a huge milestone to hit, and it sounds like you learned some solid lessons on your way here. There's nothing quite like learning from experience.

    My thinking reading your landing page is that, as someone who runs a content site with miserable SEO and who is currently focused on improving in that area, I should be your ideal customer, no? And yet the copy doesn't pull me in. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything crucial by not signing up for SEYOH.

    My guess is because your copy is focused heavily on the actions I need to take, rather than on the benefits I'll receive or the pain points that SEYOH will help me with. Some examples:

    • "SEO Content Writing Software"

    • "Write fantastic online content optimised for search engines and humans alike."

    • "SEYOH helps you manage, organise and write search engine optimised content."

    • "Create projects and organise your content and documents."

    • "Write natural sounding content and avoid keyword stuffing."

    • "Select, manage and track your keywords within our editor."

    • "Everthing you type is auto-saved, never lose a single word."

    • "Improve and optimise your content for human readability."

    None of these really appeal to me. They're features and actions, but what I want are solutions to problems. Later on you've got some copy that gets a bit better:

    • "Good content is essential for every online business."

    • "Spice up and maximise the effect of your content."

    Okay, that's on the right track for me. I would absolutely love to "maximize the effect" of my content. I think about doing that every day, and I want SEYOH to help me, but I can't figure out how it will do that, because I'm not sure what problems it solves, and I'm too lazy to read through all the features and then try to figure out what problems I'd use them to solve. Here are some of the problems that are actually top-of-mind for me:

    • saving time by adopting a system built to move large volumes of content through a pipeline with lots of guest writers involved (currently using a hodgepodge of Airtable, email, etc)

    • growing by devising a list of topics in our niche that have highly-trafficked keywords

    • growing faster by identifying new distribution channels and additional strategies to promote the content we put out

    • improving our search rankings by getting additional backlinks to our most promising articles

    • improving the search rankings for my most important articles and pages by setting up proper internal linking

    • getting more people to click around the site by setting up relevant recommendations at the bottom of each article

    • etc.

    I'd bet that someone could start an entire company to help with each of these problems. For example, Rand Fishkin is building Sparktoro to help with the third thing on my list.

    1. 2

      Incredible feedback. Thank you so much!

      You know funny thing you mention about the copy that way because I was just thinking that last night. There's no 'voice of customer' phrases that we've used. Definitely room for improvement.

      Your things that are top of mind:

      • saving time by adopting a system built to move large volumes of content through a pipeline with lots of guest writers involved (currently using a hodgepodge of Airtable, email, etc)

      • growing by devising a list of topics in our niche that have highly-trafficked keywords

      Number two was actually in scope for the original feature set we planned on shipping but we cut it from the MVP to get it out the door. Helping manage/develop/maintain keyword strategy is definitely something we are interested in pursuing as it was part of the 'scratch your own itch' story as to how my co-founder and I started working on this.

      We actually really want to focus on the first item on your list going forward, but before we write a single line of code for it we want to do a lot of customer development so that we build the right thing. I'd love to talk more about your current process and how we can help. Can we set up a time to chat? DM me on twitter.

  2. 5

    Congrats man.

    Pros:

    • I really like your core message: "Write fantastic online content optimised for search engines and humans alike." It answered my, "why should I keep reading?" question.

    Suggestions:

    • In the "What can you do with SEYOH?" section on the landing page, I think a GIF showing a user writing content on your dashboard would work remarkably well. The 5 bullet points are nice but I skimmed through them and didn't quite retain it. I am also a visual person so my suggestion is biased.

    • On 'How it Works' page, the last two sections are gold. The first three are boilerplate which every other CMS does. I know you are trying to communicate the chronological nature of the phases, but you are sacrificing prime above-the-fold real-estate for information which is not useful to me. Sacrifice chronological thinking and move steps 4 and 5 to the top - that is your main value add.

    • I don't quite understand the value this page adds - https://seyoh.com/content-writing-tool-features. Landing page + how it works + pricing page should be enough to drive your point home, IMO. Also way too much text on this page which I didn't bother reading (and I am a potential customer).

    1. 2

      This is really good feedback! With regards to the https://seyoh.com/content-writing-tool-features page I was actually thinking the same thing. I'll pass this feedback along to my co-founder :)

  3. 3

    Hi,

    Well, you have a lot of comments here, so I won't repeat what everyone else has said.

    However, I tried to use your product and could not figure out how to do it. :( I got the impression from the copy that somehow your product was going to optimize my written content, both for humans and SEO. But that didn't seem to happen. Perhaps I misunderstood, but if I did, so will others. (Also, you should know I am nowhere near any kind of SEO expert.)

    If your product is simply a fancy-dressed checklist of items such as "meta description should be x characters long", I am not sure about the market for that. BUT if your product will read my text and optimize it for both humans and SEO, I think there is a market for that.

    Anyway, hope this is helpful for you. If anything, know that I was kind of excited with my initial expectation, so now you just have to figure out how to make the product deliver a valuable service and ease my SEO pain. :)

    Cheers,

    -Pmox2018

  4. 3

    Congratulations on this milestone! I think shipping a product (not just a landing page) in 3 months is actually commendable, even though you say "FINALLY" as if it took far too long. The landing page looks absolutely beautiful.

    Out of curiosity, where did you get your TOS and Privacy Policy from?

    I'll be launching my SAAS very soon and I've been working on it for over a year! #feelsbadman

    1. 1

      Thanks for your kind words :)

      My co-founder has a bunch of other projects and I assume he recycled / modified some TOS and Privacy Policy that he had put together from those efforts as he was the one responsible for the marketing web site and I did the whole back end.

      Yeah, it's funny how long development actually takes. A year is a really long time. I think I say FINALLY because it feels more like 3 years because while I was working full-time I was always making projects and then a new shiny thing would come along and I would drop the old thing and start something new and never shipped anything that was fully done. So to finally hit this milestone is a big moment for me personally.

      Also coming from a corporate background I'm used to working in a team of 6 ~ 7 people and the pace at which you can build things with a team that size is what I'm used to, so when are all on your own it takes 6 to 7 times longer to produce that same effort and even something so simple can take quite a long time.

  5. 3

    Congratulations on the launch James!

    I'm not a content writer myself, but from taking a look at the website and the features of the product, I think it looks good.

    The only thing I would point out, is that it is not clear if the pricing is monthly or a one-time payment.

    1. 1

      Good point! Will update this in the morning :)

  6. 2

    Well done

    Some quick points:

    • No favicon

    • Seyoh mentioned x2 in tab description

    • Footer area text looks one/two sizes too big

    • "SEYOHs algorithm is a result of combining backgrounds in linguistics and programming with experience in digital and content marketing." Could be SEYOHs algorithm is a result of combining experience in linguistics, programming, digital and content marketing.

    • I like the image hover over thingy

    • The pricing section could be presented differently. With a quick scan it looks like the same features for different prices across the tiers. Could be more distinct perhaps

    1. 1

      Great to have another pair of eyes in it. I don't do the design stuff myself, my co-founder does that, so I will pass this feedback along and we can tidy things up a bit. Thank you so much for taking the time to give us some feedback. Much appreciated.

      1. 1

        You're welcome! Best of Luck

  7. 1

    Just a quick since i'm in a rush right now: The core message "Write fantastic online content optimised ..." is hard to read, since it's background is full of text. I would definitely change that

  8. 1

    Good job!

    I'd love to see a before/after example of some optimized content. Or better still, be able to put some of my content in, then have it optimised/commented... You could limit the word count on this, with a trail of increased for sign-up, social sharing... then <BOOM> payment for power users.

  9. 1

    Looks solid!

    I wouldn't link to empty social sites. Just adds another way to loose the visitor's attention. Adding them back in also shouldn't be too much work

  10. 1

    Love the name... made me laugh and smile :)

    Maybe add some tutorial videos if there aren't any?

    Good work and congrats on the launch!

  11. 1

    Hi James,

    Congrats on your accomplishment! I'm looking forward to giving SEYOH a try. Like @dhruvg mentions, more visual support would really sell me - if I had just stumbled on the site, I would want to see something like a screencast before signing up for a trial.

    The phrase "SEYOH's algorithm is a result of combining backgrounds in linguistics and programming with experience in digital and content marketing" piques my interest. Seems it's got good potential as a trust signal but it's relegated to the bottom of the page. It's an interesting blend of experience that I'd suggest getting a bit more descriptive with.

  12. 1

    Congrats- love the concept of a text editor that helps me optimize for SEO. And the user experience for that piece is pretty solid. This is a tool I will definitely use, but I don't think you could convince me to pay for it without additional solutions.

    I'd approach it like this.. imagine the entire user journey for a content marketer. Map it out visually. Then plot Seyoh on the map (I think Seyoh fits into the content optimization stage). Then I would dream up a v2 of Seyoh that improves the experiences before and/or after the content optimization step.

    I'd probably pursue the biggest pain point of the two because it's more likely you'll be able to charge if you're addressing a big pain.

  13. 1

    On your pricing page shouldn't "Optimisation" be "Optimization" with a Z? Site looks nice overall though.

    1. 3

      Well, now that you mention it I suppose so if it's for a US audience. We are from New Zealand, so we spell it that way.

      1. 1

        You guys spell it wrong :)

        1. 2

          Need a feature to swap out US/British spellings based on location so everyone feels at home :)

  14. 1

    Congrats, James! Good to see another MicroConf attendee making progress. Totally inspiring for me :) I'm not the target audience for your product so I can't give any useful feedback on the copy.

    You said your next step is to do more research. What online watering holes are you going to lurk in to do that?

    P.S. My early career involved a ton of Java and Spring Framework. You like to play on hard mode for sure 😁

    1. 2

      Hi Loc! Thanks :)

      We built the entire current offering just scratching our own itch so to speak, but after MicroConf I got really excited about customer research and we made an effort to do some in order to pick the next direction to go in. We used the reviews on Capterra of other products in the content marketing space and cataloged the customer feedback both positive and negative and learned some interesting things from that. As well as customer support forums for wordpress plugins in that space.

      I'm really keen to put into practice the teachings in lean B2B, so most probably it won't be lurking in watering holes as such but getting in contact with people who are trying to manage/produce a lot of content at scale and figuring out what's painful for them and how we can help.

  15. 1

    This is cool - keep it up!

  16. 1

    Congrats!

    My first thought is I want to see the UI on the first page! So I can get an idea of what it looks like. Your https://seyoh.com/write-seo-optimised-content shows these off great, but I'd like to see a nice big screenshot of it on the first homepage, imho.

    One example, but there are many: https://airtable.com/

    1. 2

      Hey Kevin, thanks for this feedback :) I think you're probably right. I've passed this on to my co-founder who takes care of the marketing website.

  17. 1

    James! Congratulations. You've taken a huge leap - and it's one that will pay off for you. Description is super simple for people even a little familiar with the space (Yoast for non-wordpress) and it looks great.

    Definitely going to try this out. Thanks for posting and congratulations again!

  18. 1

    Congratulations! How did you prepare to launch?

    1. 1

      I didn't prepare.

      I'm hacking away on building a habit forming app in Rails in my after-hours (see: https://www.indiehackers.com/@from_30_to_greatness/leveraging-ui-toolkits-to-build-front-ends-c0fd12ae74) and one of the habits I'm trying to form is writing every day. So to tick my 'write for 15 mins' box I wrote this 'i finally shipped' post on IH!

      What did I learn from doing that?

      Nothing can prepare you for launch.

  19. 1

    Very clever naming :D

    Congrats on the launch, and good luck :)

    1. 1

      Thanks :) Yeah, my co-founder came up with it. We liked it enough to keep it.

  20. 1

    Congratulations on the launch!

    My suggestions are the following:

    • The homepage should be considered more as the "Why us". I can't see anywhere the benefit and value of using your product. What are my alternatives and why will you save me money? In other words, you should emphasize more on the benefits and the real practical value of your product and these two will explain themselves your pricing and help people understand if you are cheap/normal/expensive.

    • In hero section I read "SEO Content Writing Software", I scroll a little but I don't see the software anywhere :) I want to see a GIF or video of using the product. How the "real thing" looks like. It's important to get familiar with the product and see how it looks, before digging into details.

    • Below the hero section, you present the features. Take a step back and present the existing problem and your solution (again the benefits)

    • how it works and features should be merged. I want to see in a simple page what problems your product can solve. Take a look on this approach https://basecamp.com/how-it-works People buy your solution so instead of writing the features you offer, describe the problems you solve and in every solution description,​ you will explain how each feature works.

    Finally,​ this is a website that I designed for a client of mine in the past and has some of the tips that I wrote https://www.intale.com/en/ You could take a look on this as well :)

    Cheers and good luck!

  21. 1

    Congrats on shipping!

    It looks pretty good to me, clear value proposition. I would say the how it works and features sections are perhaps a little verbose.

    The obvious thing missing is social proof, which I'm sure you're aware of. This is something I could do with right now so I've signed up - happy to give you a testimonial after I've tried out the personal plan.

    I think you should ask for explicit acceptance of the privacy policy as well as the terms too but IANAL.

    1. 1

      @from_30_to_greatness Unfortunately, the app keeps crashing in my browser. Looks like you might have some WebSocket issues?

      1. 1

        Thanks for trying the product out!

        I checked the logs and I could see it's passing messages back and forth between the client server over the websocket, though in saying that during development we definitely found and troubleshooted multiple websocket related issues and it's possible we missed an edge case.

        Would it be possible to chat over zoom to get some feedback on how your experience was and maybe directly see what is happening?

        1. 1

          I'm open to chatting on Zoom, although it might be a little difficult timewise since you are in New Zealand and I'm in the UK.

          I have a second issue where I can't seem to login using the username team@idiopage.com, tried resetting my password too but still getting a credentials not found error.

          I'll give it a proper go next week when I start writing some content.

  22. 1

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