Idea you're passionate vs. Just build *something*
Hi All,
I've been struggling for a bit with the trade-off between committing & inding an idea i'm passionate about (something that seems to be harder to do than I thought) vs. just building something opportunistically that I think could sell or solve a problem.
Most conventional tech startup advice focuses on the idea that you shouldn't start a startup unless you're passionate about it because it's tough/grueling/time consuming etc. While on the other hand there are tons of Analytics/CRM/Automation tools that I'd be surprised people are genuinely passionate about.
Bottom line - do you think it's worth just building something to get started and see if it works, or should you really devote lots of time to finding the right/perfect/passionate idea that you are planning to dedicate the next few years to?
In particular as I find my self worried about committing to the "wrong" idea and go too far down a rabbit hole then abandoning vs. just experimenting now.
Passion vs. something - would love to hear everyone's thoughts / takes?
I’ve just read an EXCELLENT book about this very subject; “unscripted” by MJ DeMarco.
In short. Don’t build a business that focusses on aonghing you’re “passionate” about. Generally that’s a mistake, and here’s why.
In short (read the book for full detail) people are passionate about delivering value, changing lives and building something wildly successful.
There are various stories of successful business people who started something as a sideline to their “real” business, but when that sideline took off THAT became their passion. Everything from cleaning toilets to Mexican fast food restaurants.
Don’t try to find something you’re passionate about. Look for a business opportunity. Look for an area you can add value or disrupt successfully. If you work hard and it starts to show a return - you WILL become passionate about that.
Makes a lot of sense - thank you for the book recommendation too, purchased!
I never thought about it this way, and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the. book recommendation, I'm going to buy today.
I jumped on Amazon to check out the book and try to be forgiving but does the book's intro make anyone else cringe?
"It is waking up in the morning and pinching yourself black-and-blue that OMG, this is my life, and it is freaking awesome. You live in your dream house, but there's no mortgage. No alarm clock, no boss, no bills. No claims on the day's time other than what you choose. It is making more money before breakfast than you made for an entire week at your last job. It is a crazy expensive car parked in your garage, a victorious symbol that your dreams no longer sleep in fantasies, but are awake with reality.
Make no mistake, this life exists. I know, because it has been mine for nearly 20 years. And in a few short years, it can be yours as well. "
A little bit. The reviews on audible.com a very positive, however.
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I think it's more about the journey, than the destination.
I've been building websites, SaaS apps and side projects for the last 10 years now. There have been no ideas I've been singularly passionate about, and I've thrown away most of what I've built - but it was all worth it for the accumulated experience.
If you want to be a builder, you have to build. Even if what you build goes nowhere, it provides valuable experience, and makes you more capable of building things overall.
"Passion" is a misleading concept in the US-centric startup lexicon that usually substitutes for either "unpaid work" or "unreasonably long hours". You might need some measure of passion in short bursts (first launch, first few sales, etc), but you cannot expect to maintain an emotional high 24/7 for as long as you're working on something. Cocaine is literally the only thing that can do that, and that's not a growth strategy :)
"cocaine is not a growth strategy" - Wogan May
Tweet of the century.
I am Wogan and I approve this message.
From my personal experience it's always the way of "build something" - at least for me.
Why?
Because while working on project A we often come accross other opportunities for project B, C or D - or even another version for project A++ which might be exponentially better or lucrative than A
When building / working on nothing you are just stuck in your head and maybe doing procrastination or have analysis paralysis.
If you do something, your head is working - your thoughts, creativity and everything within is "on fire" and you are even able to have other and better ideas.
So again, my point of view: Just start doing something - thinkt it trough, build it, release it, market it and while you are doing this your "big idea" or "passion project" will come along or emerge...
Good luck!
Adam Wathan and Justin Jackson recently had a positively lovely podcast discussion about this very topic. The general idea boiled down to, instead of trying to find an idea for a product you are passionate about in a vacuum, try instead to find an audience you are passionate about serving. Then, build a following of people in that audience, and listen to what they want in order to determine what to make.
http://www.fullstackradio.com/93
This completely sidesteps the problem of "I built this app and then nobody wanted it" because you don't build anything unless you know someone already wants it because they've told you so.
In the podcast, they both agree that passion for serving the audience is absolutely necessary, because otherwise someone different will come along who cares about serving that audience more and will thoroughly trounce everyone else in the space.
Your mileage may vary, but it was a very freeing and encouraging idea for me, and one that takes away a lot of worry about what to build, and also answers the passion problem question.
Passion is fleeting. It can give you the initial devil may care attitude that is helpful for a new project.
But Passion fades.
And that's fine.
Just building something, not a bad move either, but if you don't give a shit, you don't give a shit right?
The happy middle path here is to build as much as you can on something while you're passionate. And if the feedback you're getting is actionable enough to make up for the lack of novelty and excitement your (now waning) passion gave you, then you're on to something.
You know like with those proverbial bricklayers, you can both lay bricks or build a cathedral. Same thing with CRMs and other tools. There are ways to find meaning in a lot of things and be motivated by them.
Best answer! I've run businesses in boring industries but tweaked them to get the meaning and revenue I needed. For one, it was just the satisfaction of setting up a business that allowed stay-at-home mums to do the technical work they were skilled at (financial plan writing) from home, earning the equivalent to a full-time week in 2-3 days. It put a smile on my face to know that kids were seeing their mum... even though it put my kids to sleep when I talked about the business 😄
I think this is bullshit. When you ask Justin Kan why they started Justin.tv, he'll say it's because they wanted to do a startup. Therefore, wanting to do a startup is a plenty good enough reason.
I think the key is to be flexible with your idea until something starts working. It's very unlikely your initial idea will be any good. So put something out there as fast as possible, and talk to people to understand why they don't need it, and what they'd need instead (more features? different product?), then try something else.
It took us a year and a half until we made our first dollar. Fast forward another year and we have a profitable business (six figure ARR, mostly profit) that's growing quickly.
Original idea: A website where people can post & vote on feedback for any product publicly (think Snapchat, Netflix, Spotify, etc.) (https://productpains.com)
Pivot: A SaaS app that helps other software companies (primarly SaaS) collect and track feedback from their users (https://canny.io)
It's also safer (less risky) to build things that people are already paying money for. For example, if you built a simple clone of Intercom, you'd definitely find some startup to pay you $20/mo who doesn't want to pay Intercom $50/mo, for some fraction of the functionality.
That said, cloning is super lame, and not a great long-term strategy, so try to find some unique spin for how you're bringing something new to your market.
So my experience with this exact problem this year taught me that Founder/Product fit is very important.
I teamed up with a co-founder to build https://seyoh.com and right around when we launched that I went to MicroConf and had to describe to people what I'd been doing. I realized then that I'd built the wrong product for me. I couldn't really talk to anyone about it and get excited. I didn't feel like it even made sense for me to be talking about it. I haven't been able to bring myself to try market it. It was just an experience I had to go through to learn that lesson. Don't think it's a waste of time making a mistake. It's often necessary in the journey.
Since then I heard this saying along the lines of you should be able to answer "why this?, why you?, why now?". That's important for me these days.
In contrast I'm hacking away on habit.fm and loving it. It's exactly the right thing for me to build because it's so much of what I have needed in my life for a long time. The difference between how I feel about this vs the last thing is pretty big.
Though I will give one caveat - I felt excited about seyoh while we were building the MVP and that gave me the necessary motivation to build it. It was only when it came time for marketing I was like... I can't do this. So, if you're a builder you can probably build anything. But if you actually give a shit about it, even though you're not a marketer you'll have the energy to figure that part out.
At least that has been my experience!
Thanks James - appreciate the candor on both endeavors. Very cool app actually (habit.fm) - really like the concept! Out of curiosity, what tech stack did you use to code/build the first version of it? If not coded, what did you use to build it and how long did it take? I constantly find myself paralyzed at this step and would love to know how to get started.
You get started by just starting. You're only paralyzed because you're afraid of making a 'mistake'. You're only afraid of making a mistake because you have some preconceived ideas about how things 'should be' or how they 'should go'. Just start and you'll soon figure out that all the things you thought could/would/should/might happen turn out vastly different than you imagined them. By starting you get some real data and you can just course correct from there. It really doesn't matter what you build with. It matters that you move forward. Doing so will allow you to get to the point in your journey that will inform you what you actually 'should' have done. Only then will you truly know anyway. It's all part of the process.
As for your question i'm building it in Rails + Turbolinks wrappers for the Android/iOS apps.
I've built many of my ideas, and I can say that if the idea has felt even a bit wrong, I have not managed to pull it through.
So if you have a gut feeling that you wouldn't want to tell your friends/mom about your idea, then don't do it.
But if it feels fun, go with it. It doesn't need to be your passion, just something you enjoy doing more than what you're doing right now.
You should be apassionate about build something , whatever . The initial ideas changes always . But if you have passion of build it , it is different. The random ideas become something you will love with the years
It's a tough one.
Personally I've read Cal Newport's book and I have a lot of respect for him but believe he's wrong on the issue of passion i.e. "get good at something and the passion will follow".
My experience is that's not how it works. There are certain things I'm really good at, but that I am simply not passionate about. Conversely there are things I'm passionate about that I'm not brilliant at.
Passion though is something of a difficult to pin down concept. I know it exists though because I have experienced it. I became passionate about living in Thailand and ran a Thai-centric website for nearly a decade - never made a red cent out of it though - so passion does not guarantee a viable business idea. :)
In your situation I would probably toy with things that catch your imagination, and see where they lead. Doing this is at least better than doing nothing while you wait for passion to strike.
Then again if you are looking to create a business that's a whole other discussion...
An excellent book on this topic is Cal Newports 'So Good They Can't Ignore You' https://amzn.to/2Mh86VP
His Hypothesis is basically the same as @Primer posted.
If we all only build stuff we are passionate about, we would all start a yoga studio on Bali, being very replaceable and not that competitive in the market.
So double down where your skills and network are and passion will join you on the way.
I love my current business. That’s why I put up with the grueling hours.
I also love building though, and it’s the dozens of little things I’ve built that has prepared me to build a fast-growing six-figure side project.
So build now, but build small.
I'm all about passion, and I can tell that is a problem.
99% of the time one is passionated with things nobody cares about.
You can just wait for the 1% of passion + something alignment, if you are patient. That also means trying constantly things and throwing them away, or being constantly iterating.