Hey Daniel. Failure is actually success in disguise. You may have not received revenue but you certainly achieved more than most people do in a lifetime. Honestly. Now to your point, yes it’s so easy and tempting and logical to do and llc, logos, domains, business cards, color schemes, etc....and planning too. That’s what we are told in business school. But in 2018 that’s not necessary any longer. I’m leaning that now.....and it’s a tough habit to break. Glad you shared and don’t give up....do some MVPs and resist the temptation to overdo it.
1
Leaning that now? If that was a mistake it was a brilliant one. Lol.
1
oh yeah...uhm...sorry about that...hahaha...brilliance comes in many places ;)
3
Postmortem should defo be a thing we do around here more often, thanks for sharing
3
@dwestendorf You've already entered the club of people that are brave enough to put themselves out there, and try to build something. 💪
$28k stings a lot, I don't need to tell you that, and it's great to see you're already applying the lessons learned with your new project, BreezyPDF.
Maybe you can get in touch with https://www.failory.com/ to post an interview and use the postmortem as an extra opportunity for BreezyPDF.
Curious to see what you do next. Followed you on Twitter.
PS: Why haven't you tweeted about this thread yet?
1
Thanks for the follow and suggestion.
I haven't tweeted about this because... well, it makes me feel vulnerable. I have a FTE digital persona to maintain for the time being, and I have a fear of damaging that with my failure story :)
So fear. That's why. :)
2
So fear. That's why. :)
I know a thing or two about fear. I build stuff and it works but no one knows who I am. It's a problem.
One thing I can say for certain: fear and not sharing have done nothing good for me, except perhaps a level of anonymity that some people would be jealous of.
But I don't think that level of anonymity is what you need if you're trying to build/ship projects.
3
Thanks for sharing. It's hard to do that for failures. Just wondering did you spend 28k for development or was that how much your time was worth in terms of opportunity costs?
3
Good question! The $28k was total expenses, everything from logo and domain name, llc registration (belonging under the too soon category), and advertisement.
No development included, I did all that myself and valued it at 0 cost. It would probably make me sick to calculate that out.
2
I am so confused and was expecting most of those spending to come from rent and living expenses, rather than "logo and domain name, llc registration (belonging under the too soon category), and advertisement."
.io domains are around $100
llc registration, depending on location, should be less than $2k
Which leaves out minor things you didn't mention, and logo and advertisement, which are both extremely variable. Please tell me you didn't put $25k total into both :/
2
"Advertised too soon -- AdWords, podcasts, sponsored newsletters -- all with poor results
This is where most of my expenses came from. "
I think he put it mostly there :)
1
I understood that much but I guess I'm surprised the OP didn't pull off the plug earlier; not that I have any experience with this kind of situation.
1
Yeah, I wrote that reply late at night so it's not obvious.
$28k was in everything it took to start and operate the biz, including llc, logo, hosting, but mostly advertisement and promotion. That is spread out over 23 months.
2
I see, thank you for clarifying that out. A good lesson for us all to learn! 🙇♂️
1
Normally opportunity cost is the biggest part but when we start a new project, we often expect a better return as well. Therefore, risks come from inaccurate assumptions.
3
Thank you for sharing this experience! Although the project failed, it's obvious that you've learned some incredibly valuable lessons that will serve you well as you work on your future side projects.
I'd be interested to hear how you are applying those lessons with BreezyPDF. Do you already have paying customers on that project?
2
I'm definitely applying almost every one of these takeaways to BreezyPDF.
For example, I did a very targeted survey of potential customers (maybe I'll write about this next?) and got a good feel for what their challenges were.
2
Thanks for sharing. It is really useful information for me to start my side job project.
2
Hey @dwestendorf, I am Rich, the maker of failory.com, a website where I weekly interview failed startups.
I have just finished reading your article and find your interesting super story. Moreover, I think that the failure of HireLoop perfectly fits Failory audience ;)
If you have some free time, and you are willing to help some new entrepreneurs, we can carry out an interview.
I am looking forward your response!
1
Just saw your email! I will now answer it :)
1
👍
2
Thanks for sharing the invaluable information.
From a long term point of view, it’s not a failure for you but the beginning of a new journal.
2
Nice writeup. I can relate to two of them in particular: over-developing and not understanding the market challenges. Good luck on your next one.
2
Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in my mistakes! It makes it sting a little less.
1
I saw Breezy on Hacker News a couple months back. Cool to see that you haven't lost motivation to keep building. How's your current project going?
Between my FTE, my other side project, having a baby, and selling/buying a house, it hasn't gotten as much attention as I'd like, but it has paying customers and is slowly growing!
I've recently built a demo to show off what it can do.
1
Thanks for sharing. I also have a couple of failed projects with lessons learned similar to you. I know that it requires some courage to actually admit that this is the end, you have to say good buy and move further. I hope you'll take your lessons and continue your path to success with the next project :) Good luck.
Also, which advertisement service was the most effective for new services?
2
no paid advertising is the most effective. Talk to your potential costumers 1 on 1 ... marketing is sales on scale. You don't need scale right now you need your first results.
Hey!
Thanks for sharing your experience :) You can add it on failory.com as well.
Thanks @Adith for mentioning Failory!
Hey Daniel. Failure is actually success in disguise. You may have not received revenue but you certainly achieved more than most people do in a lifetime. Honestly. Now to your point, yes it’s so easy and tempting and logical to do and llc, logos, domains, business cards, color schemes, etc....and planning too. That’s what we are told in business school. But in 2018 that’s not necessary any longer. I’m leaning that now.....and it’s a tough habit to break. Glad you shared and don’t give up....do some MVPs and resist the temptation to overdo it.
Leaning that now? If that was a mistake it was a brilliant one. Lol.
oh yeah...uhm...sorry about that...hahaha...brilliance comes in many places ;)
Postmortem should defo be a thing we do around here more often, thanks for sharing
@dwestendorf You've already entered the club of people that are brave enough to put themselves out there, and try to build something. 💪
$28k stings a lot, I don't need to tell you that, and it's great to see you're already applying the lessons learned with your new project, BreezyPDF.
Maybe you can get in touch with https://www.failory.com/ to post an interview and use the postmortem as an extra opportunity for BreezyPDF.
Curious to see what you do next. Followed you on Twitter.
PS: Why haven't you tweeted about this thread yet?
Thanks for the follow and suggestion.
I haven't tweeted about this because... well, it makes me feel vulnerable. I have a FTE digital persona to maintain for the time being, and I have a fear of damaging that with my failure story :)
So fear. That's why. :)
I know a thing or two about fear. I build stuff and it works but no one knows who I am. It's a problem.
One thing I can say for certain: fear and not sharing have done nothing good for me, except perhaps a level of anonymity that some people would be jealous of.
But I don't think that level of anonymity is what you need if you're trying to build/ship projects.
Thanks for sharing. It's hard to do that for failures. Just wondering did you spend 28k for development or was that how much your time was worth in terms of opportunity costs?
Good question! The $28k was total expenses, everything from logo and domain name, llc registration (belonging under the too soon category), and advertisement.
No development included, I did all that myself and valued it at 0 cost. It would probably make me sick to calculate that out.
I am so confused and was expecting most of those spending to come from rent and living expenses, rather than "logo and domain name, llc registration (belonging under the too soon category), and advertisement."
.io domains are around $100
llc registration, depending on location, should be less than $2k
Which leaves out minor things you didn't mention, and logo and advertisement, which are both extremely variable. Please tell me you didn't put $25k total into both :/
"Advertised too soon -- AdWords, podcasts, sponsored newsletters -- all with poor results
This is where most of my expenses came from. "
I think he put it mostly there :)
I understood that much but I guess I'm surprised the OP didn't pull off the plug earlier; not that I have any experience with this kind of situation.
Yeah, I wrote that reply late at night so it's not obvious.
$28k was in everything it took to start and operate the biz, including llc, logo, hosting, but mostly advertisement and promotion. That is spread out over 23 months.
I see, thank you for clarifying that out. A good lesson for us all to learn! 🙇♂️
Normally opportunity cost is the biggest part but when we start a new project, we often expect a better return as well. Therefore, risks come from inaccurate assumptions.
Thank you for sharing this experience! Although the project failed, it's obvious that you've learned some incredibly valuable lessons that will serve you well as you work on your future side projects.
I'd be interested to hear how you are applying those lessons with BreezyPDF. Do you already have paying customers on that project?
I'm definitely applying almost every one of these takeaways to BreezyPDF.
For example, I did a very targeted survey of potential customers (maybe I'll write about this next?) and got a good feel for what their challenges were.
Thanks for sharing. It is really useful information for me to start my side job project.
Hey @dwestendorf, I am Rich, the maker of failory.com, a website where I weekly interview failed startups.
I have just finished reading your article and find your interesting super story. Moreover, I think that the failure of HireLoop perfectly fits Failory audience ;)
If you have some free time, and you are willing to help some new entrepreneurs, we can carry out an interview.
I am looking forward your response!
Just saw your email! I will now answer it :)
👍
Thanks for sharing the invaluable information.
From a long term point of view, it’s not a failure for you but the beginning of a new journal.
Nice writeup. I can relate to two of them in particular: over-developing and not understanding the market challenges. Good luck on your next one.
Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in my mistakes! It makes it sting a little less.
I saw Breezy on Hacker News a couple months back. Cool to see that you haven't lost motivation to keep building. How's your current project going?
BreezyPDF going well!
Between my FTE, my other side project, having a baby, and selling/buying a house, it hasn't gotten as much attention as I'd like, but it has paying customers and is slowly growing!
I've recently built a demo to show off what it can do.
Thanks for sharing. I also have a couple of failed projects with lessons learned similar to you. I know that it requires some courage to actually admit that this is the end, you have to say good buy and move further. I hope you'll take your lessons and continue your path to success with the next project :) Good luck.
Hey, thank you for expressing your experience.
I'm just launched my project (https://www.fimmia.com).
What methods would you recommend to avoid?
Also, which advertisement service was the most effective for new services?
no paid advertising is the most effective. Talk to your potential costumers 1 on 1 ... marketing is sales on scale. You don't need scale right now you need your first results.
Thanks :)