Hi Tem! All agencies are fundamentally referral businesses. You start by helping people you know, and if you do a good job they normally recommend you to friends & colleagues.
NoCode is a bit more challenging because it's new - but it also helps you focus on talking to people who are already receptive to new things.
I'm a product marketer by trade and worked in tech for many years so I started with consulting engagements about repositioning , messaging, which are usually things you do before launching a new thing. It was relatively easy from there to say: hey, what if I also help design and build the website / app now that we have the content and strategy?
I also recommend starting with a niche. Maybe you see traction in a specific industry / know people there. Focusing is not a limit, it's an advantage!
For example, I'm one of the few people out there that will do HIPAA-compliant no-code apps.
Re: closing deals - you close deals by listening to the client's problem and explaining a path to the solution. I find that sales calls are the most fun part of my day. Even if I don't end up working with them, I like helping people.
Completely agree with all points! I often see that entrepreneurs are catching too wide a net in the mistaken belief that narrowing would mean less business.
My two cents, niche until it hurts.
Congrats on your amazing growth @visualdev. Such a win that you love (and clearly understand) sales. 🚀🙌
Webflow, Adalo, Airtable, Twilio, Glide, Retool, Zapier, Integromat… site is done in Typedream. I haven’t done anything in Bubble yet but I hope to to have the opportunity soon.
My philosophy is not to specialize in one tool, but pick the right tool or combination for each project. That makes me definitely a minority among no code agencies. Most people specialize in one platform.
Hi Veronica,
The agency website looks very appealing, great work.
Wanted to ask you about your pricing strategy, I understand you have fixed packages based on time. Would you please elaborate on how you set pricing for a project and what do you do with scope changes in an agile project?
Hi there! Good question. I personally love fixed pricing based on project complexity, more than time (al thought they are usually correlated). It’s not perfect, but it’s better than alternatives as it keeps incentives aligned. With hourly, you have incentives to bill as much as possible, plus the overhead of tracking hours. When I’ve been client side, I always felt screwed with retainers. No matter what, agencies always billed me to the max hours.
There are mixed models, but you lose three simplicity of a fixed price. The con is that you have to do a little more upfront work scoping, but I don’t think it’s incompatible with agile (regardless of code or no-code), as long as you k now how much it takes you to do things. There, I think Nocode has the advantage of being faster and more predictable. Do I make mistakes? Sure. But it’s never going to take an extra month like with some dev projects.
If we want to add things, we can keep adding to the SOW. If the addition is easy to scope, that’s another fixed price upsell. If the client wants to be a bit more fluid, I have priced by the week / month. What’s important in my model is that the client feels in control of what we build for her. That she’s not paying for “maintenance” but only for value-add services.
Hard to define “NoCode experience”. I feel I’ve “nocoded” all my life. I started as a marketer in organizations of devs, so I did what I could to be autonomous and taught myself front end and back end concepts, and enough code to be dangerous. What changed and allowed me to make it into a career are the type of nocode platforms available. 10 years ago, the best you could do was a crappy website with Worpress or Squarespace. Now, there are tools like Weblflow or Bubble. They are young platforms, so technically I don’t think there’s anybody with more than 5 years of experience in this very nascent industry! They real experience comes from working in tech and being able to ship a software product.
Today, You can learn a no-code tool in months. That doesn’t mean you know how to solve a client’s problem. It’s the difference between knowing how to use a sledgehammer and knowing how to build a house.
Hi Veronica, thanks for posting your story! I recently started my own no-code agency a few months back so I really appreciate some of the advice and tips!
Very impressive revenue numbers Veronica, and as others stated, love the website looks and the simplistic feeling.
May I ask how do no-code apps work? As a 36-old developer I know very little about it. For example, when features are needed, is a non technical person able to add them easily?
Also, which plans do your clients usually go for? My intuition tells me that they choose the $10-15k range.
BTW love the italian vehicle analogy on the pricing lol
Most nocode projects I do are between 10k-20k, but it varies. If you start from scratch, there’s a good chance you work in phases: you start with a stripped down MVP (the Vespa) and then upgrade from there. If there’s design or content strategy attached to the project, it will be more expensive.
Regarding no-code apps: they are really indistinguishable from “traditionally coded” equivalents, and the process is very similar to classic agile software development. The difference is that the apps end up “visually developed” and the code is generated by a platform that usually also takes care of core infrastructure and services such as hosting, user authentication, payments, etc.
The client needs to be ok trusting the platform, the big trade-off is that no engineers are needed to maintain. A non-technical person can make ordinary changes and deploy with just an internet connection. For teams where devs are strapped by a million requests, or teams without devs, it’s a very worthy trade-off. Developers are very scarce. This trend is a response to that scarcity.
How long were you working in your business before hiring the first person?
How did you get the first clients?
What's your pricing strategy?
Why you didn't buy eldurstudio.com? Domain doesn't matter in your opinion?
I responded on pricing and first clients in other comments, when it comes to hiring, you don’t do this alone: you have to gather a strong team. That doesn’t necessarily mean hiring full time though. I end up building a variety of different project so a better approach for me is to use the right man for the right job at the right time.
I find domain names quite over-estimated, especially in service businesses (for SaaS, especially consumer products, it’s a different story and a good domain can be a meaningful advantage). I should probably buy eldurstudio.com for defensive purposes but it’s definitely not a priority. I feel like I could change name in a year, and see little difference, since brand is so new.
Hi Seth! Yes there are projects I say no to, and clients I say no to, as well! 😉
Ultimately, no-code can do a lot but can’t do everything. If I what I do is not a great fit for the product needs and vision, then it doesn’t make sense to take it: I’m going to deliver something sub-par, and client will be unhappy.
I’m always very clear upfront of what are the pros and cons of a no-code architecture, and flag all the limits the app will have.
In the end, the client is trading speed and agility for scalability and upfront investment.
My advantage here is that I offer a good amount of strategy and UX-UI services that are universally useful, so some clients have asked me to work on that part, and then someone else did the dev.
Before you started receiving referrals, did you do any marketing on social media etc? Was there a specific channel that seemed to work best for those who can't yet rely on referrals?
I waited a bit before launching publicly via social media because I wanted to have some success stories on my plate first. Of course, you can always have demo apps, but real testimonials are always better.
You always start with your network. Ex colleagues, friends, neighbors, relative. Nexts, don't underestimate cold reaching out to people. NoCode twitter is very active, and there are people looking for help all the time. You can just reply to those threads and put your name in the consideration set. I have written to startups saying: hey, your website sucks, you should do this this and that and I can help you. Most of the time they won't reply, but you'll be surprised!
You can also think of places where your potential customers aggregate. For example, if you are building e-commerce sites, you should sign up for communities, Facebook Groups, Slack Groups, etc of e-commerce entrepreneurs. Those are the first places where people in need of services ask for referrals, and you can be there at the right place at the right time.
Nice work! I'd love to dig into your marketing and sales process like. Where are the clients coming from? And how do you close deals?
Also, how do you think about this market? What are the opportunities?
I know this is a lot 🙃
Hi Tem! All agencies are fundamentally referral businesses. You start by helping people you know, and if you do a good job they normally recommend you to friends & colleagues.
NoCode is a bit more challenging because it's new - but it also helps you focus on talking to people who are already receptive to new things.
I'm a product marketer by trade and worked in tech for many years so I started with consulting engagements about repositioning , messaging, which are usually things you do before launching a new thing. It was relatively easy from there to say: hey, what if I also help design and build the website / app now that we have the content and strategy?
I also recommend starting with a niche. Maybe you see traction in a specific industry / know people there. Focusing is not a limit, it's an advantage!
For example, I'm one of the few people out there that will do HIPAA-compliant no-code apps.
Re: closing deals - you close deals by listening to the client's problem and explaining a path to the solution. I find that sales calls are the most fun part of my day. Even if I don't end up working with them, I like helping people.
Awesome work and really helpful information! Very curious which platforms you use for your HIPAA solutions. Thanks in advance!
Hi Bruce! It depends, but I've found good success with Retool (self-hosted). DocFrame is a new platform that is also HiPAA compliant.
Completely agree with all points! I often see that entrepreneurs are catching too wide a net in the mistaken belief that narrowing would mean less business.
My two cents, niche until it hurts.
Congrats on your amazing growth @visualdev. Such a win that you love (and clearly understand) sales. 🚀🙌
Nice article. We developped our web-app with Bubble and we could need someone to help us in the future. Happy to connect!
what is your tool you use?
Webflow, Adalo, Airtable, Twilio, Glide, Retool, Zapier, Integromat… site is done in Typedream. I haven’t done anything in Bubble yet but I hope to to have the opportunity soon.
My philosophy is not to specialize in one tool, but pick the right tool or combination for each project. That makes me definitely a minority among no code agencies. Most people specialize in one platform.
Hi Veronica,
The agency website looks very appealing, great work.
Wanted to ask you about your pricing strategy, I understand you have fixed packages based on time. Would you please elaborate on how you set pricing for a project and what do you do with scope changes in an agile project?
Hi there! Good question. I personally love fixed pricing based on project complexity, more than time (al thought they are usually correlated). It’s not perfect, but it’s better than alternatives as it keeps incentives aligned. With hourly, you have incentives to bill as much as possible, plus the overhead of tracking hours. When I’ve been client side, I always felt screwed with retainers. No matter what, agencies always billed me to the max hours.
There are mixed models, but you lose three simplicity of a fixed price. The con is that you have to do a little more upfront work scoping, but I don’t think it’s incompatible with agile (regardless of code or no-code), as long as you k now how much it takes you to do things. There, I think Nocode has the advantage of being faster and more predictable. Do I make mistakes? Sure. But it’s never going to take an extra month like with some dev projects.
If we want to add things, we can keep adding to the SOW. If the addition is easy to scope, that’s another fixed price upsell. If the client wants to be a bit more fluid, I have priced by the week / month. What’s important in my model is that the client feels in control of what we build for her. That she’s not paying for “maintenance” but only for value-add services.
Great, thanks Veronica
How much nocode experience did you have before opening up your agency?
Hard to define “NoCode experience”. I feel I’ve “nocoded” all my life. I started as a marketer in organizations of devs, so I did what I could to be autonomous and taught myself front end and back end concepts, and enough code to be dangerous. What changed and allowed me to make it into a career are the type of nocode platforms available. 10 years ago, the best you could do was a crappy website with Worpress or Squarespace. Now, there are tools like Weblflow or Bubble. They are young platforms, so technically I don’t think there’s anybody with more than 5 years of experience in this very nascent industry! They real experience comes from working in tech and being able to ship a software product.
Today, You can learn a no-code tool in months. That doesn’t mean you know how to solve a client’s problem. It’s the difference between knowing how to use a sledgehammer and knowing how to build a house.
Hi Veronica, thanks for posting your story! I recently started my own no-code agency a few months back so I really appreciate some of the advice and tips!
Jag
Very impressive revenue numbers Veronica, and as others stated, love the website looks and the simplistic feeling.
May I ask how do no-code apps work? As a 36-old developer I know very little about it. For example, when features are needed, is a non technical person able to add them easily?
Also, which plans do your clients usually go for? My intuition tells me that they choose the $10-15k range.
BTW love the italian vehicle analogy on the pricing lol
Most nocode projects I do are between 10k-20k, but it varies. If you start from scratch, there’s a good chance you work in phases: you start with a stripped down MVP (the Vespa) and then upgrade from there. If there’s design or content strategy attached to the project, it will be more expensive.
Regarding no-code apps: they are really indistinguishable from “traditionally coded” equivalents, and the process is very similar to classic agile software development. The difference is that the apps end up “visually developed” and the code is generated by a platform that usually also takes care of core infrastructure and services such as hosting, user authentication, payments, etc.
The client needs to be ok trusting the platform, the big trade-off is that no engineers are needed to maintain. A non-technical person can make ordinary changes and deploy with just an internet connection. For teams where devs are strapped by a million requests, or teams without devs, it’s a very worthy trade-off. Developers are very scarce. This trend is a response to that scarcity.
How long were you working in your business before hiring the first person?
How did you get the first clients?
What's your pricing strategy?
Why you didn't buy eldurstudio.com? Domain doesn't matter in your opinion?
I responded on pricing and first clients in other comments, when it comes to hiring, you don’t do this alone: you have to gather a strong team. That doesn’t necessarily mean hiring full time though. I end up building a variety of different project so a better approach for me is to use the right man for the right job at the right time.
I find domain names quite over-estimated, especially in service businesses (for SaaS, especially consumer products, it’s a different story and a good domain can be a meaningful advantage). I should probably buy eldurstudio.com for defensive purposes but it’s definitely not a priority. I feel like I could change name in a year, and see little difference, since brand is so new.
Congrats, Veronica!
Thanks!
Welcome
Congrats, Veronica! Super impressive quick growth.
One question I have is, are there any projects you say no to, and why?
Also, would love to highlight you on nocode.mba/interviews. If you're interested just let me know :)
Hi Seth! Yes there are projects I say no to, and clients I say no to, as well! 😉
Ultimately, no-code can do a lot but can’t do everything. If I what I do is not a great fit for the product needs and vision, then it doesn’t make sense to take it: I’m going to deliver something sub-par, and client will be unhappy.
I’m always very clear upfront of what are the pros and cons of a no-code architecture, and flag all the limits the app will have.
In the end, the client is trading speed and agility for scalability and upfront investment.
My advantage here is that I offer a good amount of strategy and UX-UI services that are universally useful, so some clients have asked me to work on that part, and then someone else did the dev.
Happy to chat with you further!
Awesome, will DM you!
Before you started receiving referrals, did you do any marketing on social media etc? Was there a specific channel that seemed to work best for those who can't yet rely on referrals?
I waited a bit before launching publicly via social media because I wanted to have some success stories on my plate first. Of course, you can always have demo apps, but real testimonials are always better.
You always start with your network. Ex colleagues, friends, neighbors, relative. Nexts, don't underestimate cold reaching out to people. NoCode twitter is very active, and there are people looking for help all the time. You can just reply to those threads and put your name in the consideration set. I have written to startups saying: hey, your website sucks, you should do this this and that and I can help you. Most of the time they won't reply, but you'll be surprised!
You can also think of places where your potential customers aggregate. For example, if you are building e-commerce sites, you should sign up for communities, Facebook Groups, Slack Groups, etc of e-commerce entrepreneurs. Those are the first places where people in need of services ask for referrals, and you can be there at the right place at the right time.