Can any B2B SaaS product reach $10k MRR?
I saw this tweet of @yongfook which was also retweeted by @levelsio. It raised some question marks on my side.
Can ANY B2B SaaS product reach $10k MRR? Generalization is a dangerous game to play.
Here is what I think:
Product-market fit
What most of us learn over time is how important product-market fit is.
One of the first steps most founders are going through is validating whether there is strong demand (a market) for a product.
Wikipedia says:
Product/market fit [...] is the degree to which a product satisfies strong market demand.
Product/market fit has been identified as a first step to building a successful venture in which the company meets early adopters, gathers feedback, and gauges interest in its product(s).
Some products target strong customer needs and have a nice growth, other products do not get any traction and face a poor market demand.
But Jon is not mentioning the market demand at all. He says that all those products can reach $10k MRR regardless of the market.
Does that also mean that product/market fit is not important? If your goal is to just reach $10k MRR...
I am not sure whether I can agree with Jon.
Products with bad product/market fit and poor market demand potentially could reach $10k MRR but it can take forever to get there.
This is the reason why there are "x startups in x months" challenges, etc. It's about finding out quickly whether there is a demand.
Here is a discussion about the value of x startups in x months.
Product-founder fit
The second part of his tweet focuses on the product-founder fit.
Jon says, if the founder does not give up on his idea too early, he can bring every product to $10k MRR.
But is quitting even an option then?
Isn't quitting the right thing to do in some situations as it frees up the person for more promising things?
Every decision has an opportunity cost (= the value of the next-best alternative when a decision is made).
So when should we quit? I recently read the book "The Dip" by Seth Godin which focuses on this question. Here are three quotes from the book:
Never quit something with great long-term potential just because you can’t deal with the stress of the moment.
The Cul-de-Sac ( French for "dead end" ) ... is a situation where you work and work and work and nothing much changes.
Winners quit fast, quit often, and quit without guilt.
Quitting bad ideas is equally as important as sticking to promising ideas.
It comes down to identifying whether an idea has potential - ideally before starting the journey so we can use our energy efficiently.
Regardless of how passionate we are about our ideas, a product without any traction can be very demotivating.
Summary
I believe that Jon is somehow right and wrong at the same time.
Every product potentially can reach $10k MRR, but for some, it may take forever to get there.
It can be very stressful for the founder to work on an idea that does not get any traction.
I believe the founder should decide before starting the journey when to quit and when not.
Which amount of growth is sufficient for you to keep on working on a product?
If there are still some opportunities for growth (some untested marketing channels, some customers to talk to, etc.) I think it's not the right thing to quit.
I would love to get your views on this and see how you are handling the situation. Do you agree with Jon? What do you think about what I wrote here?
__
If you like to chat more about indie hacking, startups, etc. feel free to follow me on Twitter: @_fbeyaz
Tweets like this are a waste of time. You did not learn anything new and it kept you on twitter longer which gives you less time working on your business.
I think that it is possible to save more money if you live more frugally. Please no need to thank me.
I think it's possible for any B2B products to get there, however it might not be worth it for all products.
Would you rather spend ten years or just one to get there?
In terms of money exchanging hands in the business world, 10K MRR is a the equivalent of a single atom in the ocean.
If you have reached 4-5 customers, it is very likely that there are douzens of others.
In B2B, you can charge a higher price than B2C.
10K MRR is 100 clients at $100 per month, or 50 at $200.
To be able to get that, you just have to save them more than the amount you charge or bring them more than what you charge in revenue and it's a no brainer for them to sign up.
So here are the question you should be asking before quitting:
If you answer yes to all those questions, you should be able to get that 10K MRR.
If not, you might want to look into another project that ticks all the boxes.
On point! Those questions are totally correct, the only problem I see is that they sometimes are hard to answer. I asked myself whether there are some things indicating to continue or not that everybody can answer.
Basically, it's hard to assess whether the product brings enough value. Because the lack of buys cannot clearly indicate whether it's an issue with the value. It could be an issue with the copies, low search volume, wrong distribution channels, etc.
Doesn't it make more sense to change the question to be more "intrinsic":
This would come down to: Quit when do not have options anymore, stick to your product if you still have untouched marketing opportunities.
What do you think?
I've checked your profile. If you're asking about: Exploo, it might just be a matter of pivot or positionning on the market.
Why would an enterprise choose what you offer instead of hosting their videos on their intranet? Costs? Discoverability? The benefits on your landing page are not clear. You might benefit from working with an experienced copywriter.
Look at the suggestions/recipes proposed by @harrydry for a landing page (you might need to search a bit in his post history). But you'll most likely find a formula that works.
There also are many LMS that could offer a guided onboarding. My guess is that many companies just don't bother creating this content, and the issue is not the platform.
Other ways you could position/market your product or different clients:
To me, it looks like you built a video sharing platform/YouTube clone, without thinking about your potential clients. So I feel like what you miss is your Unique Value Proposition.
Figure out why you're doing this, why it matters, why would someone need it. And hammer on that. Relentlessly. Once you figured it out, sales will flow.
What's your differenciator?
Hi @martdi,
Great feedback. Thanks. 🙏🏼
I actually checked a lot of the posts of @harrydry and also checked his website even before building my landing page. So what you are seeing is already me trying hard to have a good copy. 😅
At this point, I am realizing that I am not good at writing inviting marketing copies and might need some support. It is just not in my circle of competence. I will ask @harrydry for support or ideas on how I could move forward with the copies and the brand message of my product.
Do you know any places where people can have a look at my landing page and point me in the right direction? I already asked some time ago here on IH for landing page feedback, but the feedback was just to add a few lines and that my messaging is not particularly clear. So I am not moving forward on this.
Do you already have customers?
If so, ask them. What is the value in your product for them and how can you improve?
If you don't have any yet, ask yourself:
In theory, you should already have an answer to all those questions before you even start building.
If your target customers don't show interest, try to figure out why?
It could be a question of perceived value, education or a poor understanding of their problems on your part.
Education: they might not know they have a problem.
Perceived value: what's in it for them?
Problem understanding: Do they really have the problem you're solving? Does your product resolve it? Does it make their life easier? Would using your product cause other issues?
Also, you might want to look into their objections, why won't they buy?
He mentions any B2B product with the constraint of good fitness between product-founder meaning that you're solving a scratch your own itch sort of problem. You understand the context in which the product will be used and know what to prioritise and build so his argument kind of makes sense.
Yes, that’s a good interpretation. And totally right. If the product-founder fit is there not only in terms of passion and background but in terms of the pain, than for sure.
Followed you.
I agree with the 50% marketing.
Jon had a pretty big following beforehand so he had the marketing side down, Its hard otherwise. A great product with no red rope and bouncers is dead in the water, a shitty product with couple of bouncers, red carpet and a waiting list is golden.
im at @rishi_uttamhk
Interesting. The main difference you are mentioning is about a good vs a successful product.
Let’s me think about what I want: a good product or a successful one…
Hi @FerhatBeyaz,
you are right in pointing out that it is too much generalized. Still I think he is right:
We need to be more persistent and put more effort into marketing - provided product market has been validated.
The potential is there, most of the time. We often just don't try hard and long enough or fail to do the important things.
To put it even more pointedly: With 10xARR valuation you throw away a potential value of at least USD 1,200,000 if you stop too soon, set your prices too low or neglect marketing. (if you have a product with product-market fit, I would add)
Now: Do you still want to stop?
10x ARR is on the high-end, if you don't have buzz built around your product or a bidding war going on.
Any product that saves time and money can get to $10K
I even have a step by step roadmap on it https://dshatalin.gumroad.com/l/10K
Hey, ok, but this is different to what the tweet says. The tweet says that ANY B2B product can reach it. What are your thoughts on that?
If you spend $100k on ads, sure. Bootstrap from 0? No way.
for B2B SaaS 10K MRR? is it big goal? )
I think it's the beginning of product-market fit if you can hit it, definitely not the end goal.
Hi, @Tiltforindie 👋🏼 I think for a lot of people is when you have absolutely no users/customers and start fresh. I started exploo.com completely from scratch and having $10k MRR right now seems very far to me.
Why do you ask? Please share.
@yongfook
This is a perennial dilemma for any founder who finds themselves with a stagnating idea/product:
Move on or keep on trudging?
Problem is you never really know if you're just not doing it right, or if indeed the idea/market sucks.
It takes acumen (basically a fancy way of saying educated guesswork) to tell the difference.
Also you never know, if you switch idea, you might encounter the exact same problem again.
If you're struggling to have a consistent lead flow or fighting churn now, who's to say you won't have the same problem with your new idea?
It's a total black box -- you have no idea how it will turn out if you suddenly switch gears halfway through.
I guess if you're at $0 MRR, you have nothing to lose, but if you're at $5k MRR, $2k MRR, or even $1k MRR, you should err on the side of persevering instead of giving up.
I was one of those who had to abandon an idea that I've poured my heart and soul into for a year, but a year with $0 MRR was sufficient to convince me that it wasn't going to work out.
I was so emotional when I finally made my first dollar and wrote a post about my journey:
https://www.indiehackers.com/product/zlappo/first-paying-customer-booyah--Lw2qly2I2AFSjcnz_zQ
I've been working on a new idea since, and working on it full-time/living off my profits for 2+ years ever since.
That’s a great answer. I do not just follow the success stories as there is always some bias in there as well. I also like to see see stories of people who struggled a lot and finally achieved success as they can teach a lot about the process.
You are right, it’s basically a complex domain problem and we do not know where we’ll find success.
I am in this situation at the moment. At 0 $MMR and struggling to find potential customers. Should I quit or not? I found out for myself that quitting does not make sense when there are still options to try out. And I got a lot of feedback and have to try out some marketing channels I was ignoring before.
Every product starts out at $0 MRR.
Some take only days to break out from it, others take months.
Keep trying different things in rapid succession, double-down on anything that seems to be even remotely working.
You'll find success that way eventually.
I tend to avoid the humble brag success stories as well, as they rarely teach what didn't work for them, which I think is incredibly important information alongside what worked for them.
We need both perspectives.
I agree with the tweet so long as the price-problem fit is perfected! If your problem is just small for your audience and you have a n unrealistic idea of the vlaue your SaaS brings, you are SOL but after some price testing... yea you should be able to hit $10k MRR pretty quickly with a good marketing startegy
I'm not sure if this is an argument. Define a B2B "product". If "product" is a placeholder for "anything you can build/pivot to that targets businesses", then yeah, as long as you keep iterating, keep trying, etc. you can eventually reach $10k/mrr.
Yes, tweets from successful founders are always a little bit biased. But staying positive is important as well!
Hehe, I totally agree. 😊 I think the product fails when the founder gives up. That's the true moment when the product becomes dead.
This comment was deleted 4 years ago.