Dads who work fulltime, do you ever feel like a crappy dad or a crappy partner (to your wife/husband)?
I realise this question could also be for working mums, but for now I'm just focusing on dads...
So, dads, do you ever feel like, with all the non-family work and/or indie hacking, like you're not there enough for your family? As in, you forget to buy birthday gifts, or leave it until the last minute, or forget to organize big gestures for your partner and/or kids...?
If not, what's your secret? :-) If so, do you have any processes for being a "better dad"?
Thanks all 🙇♀️
Man, just the fact that you feel this way puts you miles above some other dads.
We're a single-income household. My wife is a SAHM. With the kids (2 and 5) home, she bears the brunt of the parenting. I wfh so I come through and swing by between meetings for lunch/breakfast/coffee but otherwise yeah I definitely am in the same boat as you. I do most of the cooking and I spend some time during the day playing with the kids or wiping butts or whatever so I'm not absent by any means, but mostly I have to ignore them when I'm working.
My routine goes like this:
8 (wake up) to 930: hang out with fam
930-1: work
1-130: lunch, but usually at my desk
130-3: work
3-4: work, but lightly entertain my 5yo while her mom puts 2yo to nap
4-530: work
530-9: make dinner, hang out and play with family, bedtime routine
9-930: walk the dog
930-midnight: hang out with wife, watch shows, read a book together, etc
midnight-2am: indie hacking
And yeah, my mother's day card is so much less fancy than the father's day card/present they arrange for me.
This is all to say: you're not alone. Previously my wife used to leave us and go to Target or whatever for an entire afternoon, but with those options not on the table right now, it's definitely rough on her. I've been taking random days off every couple weeks so I can make all their weekends a bit longer.
This reminds me- I'm going to mark an hour off on my calendar tomorrow morning so I can go on a bike ride with them all.
username checks out 😅
I make it all very efficient by working right from bed at night, so I just have to close my laptop and shove it under the bed and pass out 😂
😆 I'm jealous that you're able to pass out right away after staring at the laptop screen for 2 hours.
Practice makes perfect!
Amen! 🙇🏼♂️💪🏼
I second that.
I love how when I think I am the only one experiencing something, I go to IH and realise there is a ton of linkminded people exeriencing similiar things.
Not anymore. Back in the days I literally never saw my kid, but that's been other reasons. Starting from there anything is a win. Right now I'm working from home most of the time, and I get to bring to or pick up my kid from school, eat at home, and just have some moments throughout the day with meaningful interaction.
Maybe it helps that I do not believe in a 40 hour work week anymore. As soon as I get bored or distracted I can spend some time with others here at home without really feeling guilty about lost time.
Another thing which may or may not help is knowing that kids will not really remember the amount of wealth you have collected during their youth, but rather the interactions y'all had. For me this puts the pressure off earning as much as possible, and makes me cherish the luxury of freely spendable time even more.
So true!!
Sometimes, yes.
I have that curse not to remember b-days, anniversaries etc. Calendar does it for me 😂🤷🏼♂️ Wife is aware of that. She doesn't mind. I think 😂
I don't think such stuff happens (forgetting gifts and other stuff you mentioned), but should any disaster kicks in I kind of figure something ad-hoc and pretend nothing went wrong 😂🤷🏼♂️ Works like a charm. I tell the Wife about it afterwards and we end up laughting for sure.
There is no secret about it, but rather trying to stay close to your schedule.
I try to keep strictly to the 9-5 schedule (official work) and then do my best to have as much time as I can with the family - lovely wife and two gorgeous rascals 😁(6yo and 7mo, both girls).
When they fall asleep (>9PM), I usually spend time with the wife and after 11PM I slowly move to the "me" time 💻🦸♂️ "Me" as in WarThunder, reading, thinking, indie making.
I believe I stay up until 3, sometimes 4 AM. Then, waking up at 8 😅 (there are 2 power naps with the baby during the day, totaling 2 hours).
My schedule:
(other unexpected journies into the unknown are not mentioned)
I sleep less than average people do (up to 7h/day), in some sort of biphasic sleep pattern, I believe (a mix of everyman and biphasic?).
You only sleep 3 hours a day?? That's crazy man.
Yeah but + 2 hours of sleep synced with the baby daytime naps 😊
One of the best decisions I made was to go full indie-hacker and work from home. I feel way closer to my two small kids than before. Mainly, because I can play with them during breaks and I'm not as "drained" as I was when working for the man. Turns out, doing what you love and being close to family overall improves mental well being and relationship with wife and kids. Hopefully, I'll make enough revenue to keep this going cuz the though of changing back to the old way is depressing...
I feel you completely. I am a father of two. I have made cognitive contract if something does not work, then it's the job that goes first. That makes my work very slow and under-performant, but from higher perspective: I am a fulltime employed, watching kids (2) in parallel (doing shifts because of the lockdown) and developing a product of my own. All three of them very dear projects to me, but with different priority. Also, very important, try not to destroy the relationship with my wife. So if I feel like a crappy dad or spouse, I stop, default to my priority and then start again from there.
Overwhelming is understatement. I feel unproductive, empty and going nowhere. But yet, there are small results that I can measure that push me forward. So all those negative feelings are very temporary and pass.
And one advice I can give now, after a year and few months of doing this is: focus on small progress. Success aggregates and manifests in larger form after some time. Do not focus on developing the whole flow today. Focus on getting the impression that you achieved something today.
I find product development very similar to raising children. There is small margin for mistake and it's something that you have the responsibility (and possibility) to make it valuable for the rest. On the other hand, combining those two things is also the most difficult thing I've ever done (other than sickness or death of course).
You are great just by thinking about the future of you and your family, to start with. Sometimes we have to push them a bit and turn the TV on, not optimal, but it's not always like that. You have a greater cause, but nobody says it's easy to do.
Wow this mirrors my experience and feelings exactly. Thanks for sharing!
Of course! Wishing you all the best in these challenging times!
Honestly, my answer is no. The "secret?" Spend a ton of time with my son. I just try to make up for lost time while he sleep, or try to be more productive so I don't waste time on useless activities (though I often fail at that haha).
I'm not a parent yet, but I feel like the shittiest person ever even when I'm neglecting my dog and he wants attention.
Everything that I'm doing right now in life is to optimize for the time when I have kids because there's no way in hell I'm gonna put work and hustle first and be a crappy parent. Fuck that.
I listened to this IH podcast and I totally loved @dmitryprdude's mentality about work. Work from 9 AM to 2 PM, pick up his daughter from kindergarten, game over.
I'm trying to do the same thing by sandboxing my work and reducing the number of hours that I'm working per day while trying to do more. It forces me to automate, delegate, and focus only on the important things.
But to be honest, I'm still scared shitless about having kids.
It's tough. I think we're all on the same boat.
What really gets to me - even though I consider I don't do bad job as a dad and partner- is that I know I could be a lot better.
Trade-offs everywhere!!! Plan vacations or fix a bug. Watch a show or write a newsletter. let the kids do <whatever>, plan, prepare, clean up or work on a new feature.
Things that help (or that I'm doing)
I haven't been very patient with my kids lately (please go away Covid, enough) and this affects me more than whatever I want for my indie thing. I can still build stuff in 10years.
Keep it up.
With two kids at 2 and 5 years old, it is definitely a challenge to juggle full time work, parenting, and also indie hacking. My wife and I work long hours, but I am lucky in that the company I am at is very understanding and flexible (meaning they are ok that I respond to emails after 9 pm). I get to WFM a couple days a week, so on those days, I carve out an hour to work out in my garage.
My schedule is very similar to everyone that listed theirs:
7am-8am - micro family time / get kids ready for camp/school/ whatever
9am-5:00pm - work at full time
5:30pm - 9pm - pick up kids, dinner, bedtime routine
9:30pm - 2am - indie hacking
Ultimately, like every says, the routine is important. What I think is even more important is have flexibility in knowing that your day isn't ruined if your schedule doesn't go as planned. I struggle with this and am getting a little better at it.
I will be honest and say that there are days when it is tough, and reading the responses helps me realize that we are all facing the same struggles as indie parents.
Thank god for remote work -- I manage to work a lot, but I'm present for my wife and kid if they need me. I do feel guilty sometimes for spending too much time in front of a computer, but I've been blessed with an amazing partner that understands what this is for.
I should also note, that I dumped all non-essential activities, just so I could spend more time with a kid. I stopped drinking and partying, I don't do any games.
And I'm trying to be thankful for everything I have, it's more than my parents had in their times. I spoil my wife and kid with unexpected gifts, because of that -- they forgive me for ignoring non-essential celebrations. ;-)
My "secret" is pretty much what the others are saying here regarding calendars and schedule. I feel like crap for broken promises, last minute late night meetings, and lacking the time to spend with them even when I'm not working because work has not allowed me to complete other necessary tasks (chores, taxes, etc).
However, I have learned a couple things that have helped. I'm 45, and a single father with two teenage daughters. The first thing, and probably the hardest thing, I learned was that a lot of the "things" I decided were the most important in the moment weren't. That call I felt I had to take at dinner, it could have waited. That last minute meeting that wasn't going to result in any action that night... could have waited. It took a few tough conversations, but for the most part everyone understood when I started saying no or rescheduling night calls/meetings for the next morning.
The other thing I learned was the importance of being open and honest about the situation with my kids. It helped them to understand why it was important that I stay on task at work as well as the volume of tasks I'm responsible for outside work. I explained to them that there are three of us that live in our house, and I can either do all the chores, or they can pitch in and help. If they pitch in, then I will have more downtime to spend with them. If they choose not to pitch in, then the time I have to do other things will be decreased as a result. I also explain a lot of what is going on around the business when I do have to pull away for a bit. On a few occasions that discussion helped me realize that I was once again wrong, and I could actually put that task aside, delegate it, or postpone in order to meet my original commitment with them.
I hope this helps in some way. And like one of the other commenters already pointed out... the fact that you're thinking about this means you're already ahead of the game.
This comment was deleted 4 years ago
This comment was deleted 4 years ago