How do you combat burnout? Need ideas.
Hi everyone,
I'm hitting my one-year anniversary in a leadership role at my current company (working for someone else, but it's a small team). We're a mid-stage startup in a very competitive industry and I've been going HARD since day one. And the effort has paid off, we've come a long ways. But the last few weeks I've been having a harder time working up enthusiasm and every indicator points to burn out.
Anyone have any good suggestions for how to combat this? It's especially tricky because I'm in the SF Bay Area which is under a significant lockdown--so work ends up being 90% of my life.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
(Re-posted because I thought I posted it in a group last time on accident. Still new to IH)
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I just do something completely different. Eg If i get burnt out after working on a software project, i start cooking or play some video games. That helps me regain my excitement.
+1 cooking or going for a run (specially if it's in the forest) are the things that works better for me.
Good idea. My sister does a lot of trail running and it seems to work really well for her. And yeah, I used to do a lot of cooking projects. Maybe worth getting back into.
If you willing to solve this in a long way I can recommend a book by Greg Mckeown Essentialism[1]
Through the book, Greg covers the situation of a different kind of burn out even from a couple of executives. Although the book is not about handling burnout and self-care, but it touches this topic many times.
[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=essentialism+greg+mckeown&oq=george+Mckeown+essentialism&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.18688j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Can you provide a gist of what direction it explores?
The main idea of the book can be explained by this quote:
“Essentialism is not about how to get more things done; it’s about how to get the right things done. It doesn’t mean just doing less for the sake of less either. It is about making the wisest possible investment of your time and energy in order to operate at our highest point of contribution by doing only what is essential.”
— Greg Mckeown, “Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less”
Greg shower such topics as:
By reading this comment you might think that I'm big fan of this book. Which is absolute true :D
Great summary! Thanks!
These are all super important ideas. I just downloaded the audiobook. Thanks for the rec.
Have you thought about how much "actual" work are you're doing?
More often than not, we tricked ourselves into a false sense of productivity.
Adding more things to the to-do list, that doesn’t move the needle and only lead to burnouts.
I'd suggest listing down a list of tasks that you're doing on a daily basis.
Then determine what can be :
The key is to do less while producing more by focusing. on the 20% that matters.
Created a post here: https://www.indiehackers.com/post/id-like-to-help-you-optimize-your-workflow-83889d4a00
I agree and would love to get there eventually, but I'm essentially a one-man-band for growth marketing at this startup. Before me they didn't really do structured testing for growth initiatives, so I'm neck-deep in testing things out--which means we're too early to automate effectively.
I've been able to get some light outsourcing working.
But I 100% agree that all of these are the goal and are things I've been pushing towards. It just may still be a while.
Hi Sean,
I haven't experienced deep burnout before. But I have had phases of feeling tired and less motivated. What's helped me with my motivation/energy is to separate and be intentional with:
Reflection is a time for evaluating what's important to me. And evaluating if the way I'm spending my time is aligned with my values.
I like to do brain-dumps to get more clarity for my reflection. This clarity gives me energy and focus.
During a reflection brain-dump, I write down anything on my mind. I try to answer questions like
While answering these questions, my goal is to write freely and messy. I follow every thread of thought that comes up and tackle it head on by zooming in and writing more.
Action/execution is a time for knocking out one small step after the next.
I again start with a brain-dump. I write down everything that's on my mind related to a task or project. Then for anything that isn't small, concrete, and actionable [1], I zoom in and do another dump[2].
Leisure is time for you. It's not a time for self-improvement or pondering work. I'd strongly recommend checking out the book Do Nothing[3], which talks about being intentional with your work time and your leisure time and scheduling both.
[1] https://blog.amazingmarvin.com/break-large-projects-tasks-bite-sized-tasks/
[2] https://medium.com/better-programming/cultivate-your-can-do-attitude-10864742d76d
[3] https://celesteheadlee.com/do-nothing-book/
Hi Cara,
I think you hit on something there. One trap I fall into is thinking that "self-improvement time" is leisure time.
Which, don't get me wrong, I think that spending leisure time studying something personally interesting is one of the greatest joys in life.
Or as Seneca said: “Leisure without study is death - a tomb for the living person”
But it doesn't help me recharge the same way doing nothing does. I spent a big chunk of yesterday doing nothing and tbh, I do feel a little less burned out after spending a little time in the tomb.
I am not an expert at preventing burn out but I can give you a couple things that have helped when I am approaching full collapse burn out:
That's a really good point. I might make a shortlist of indicators where if I see them I know I'm approaching burnout. Then I can create my own If-this-then-that list of what to do. I know one is I start seeing the same incomplete tasks on my to-do list every day.
Lots of good advice here already. One thing to add: every year for the past 6 years I've arranged a trip with 1-4 close friends. We go away for about a week. Here are some things we've done:
I always take this time to completely unplug (I tell work that there is no internet where I am going), and also to reflect on the year.
With lockdown this year we won't be able to travel, but I'm sure we'll figure something out locally.
Hi Christopher,
I really really like this idea and will definitely try to get something similar started.
DO jump on a few days off and restric yourself from thinking about work
Yeah, I think the "thinking about work when not working" thing is a big part of the problem. I'm never fully tuned out, which is exhausting.
you know, that was my problem, too
but them I discovered horse riding
It's been my dream for all of my life, and now I am in the horse club, cleaning horses and learning how to be an equestrian!
when I ride a horse, I forget everything
only on my way back home I start recollecting something about myself, like "okay, I'm Valerie from Dashly, and I do growth marketing"
I have had similar experience in first year of roles. Its great that your team is cruising well.
It will be good idea to take a week off. Separate yourself from work completely. And during this week -
I used to do this when i used to feel burnt out. A little break and giving time to system-2 of mind (thinking fast & slow) is what helps.
I would suggest reading Tim Ferris's 4 hour week. He has good tips on the subject. Check out tim.blog
Thinking Fast & Slow is a great book. I've also read Tim's book but it's been a few years. Might be time for a re-read :)
I don't think I have our systems yet in a place where we can automate effectively, but there probably are a few areas I can ignore or at least de-prioritize.
I've thought about taking a week off but what would I even do with myself. It's COVID lockdown.
Relevant:
Ouch. That one hits home. I've mostly been entrepreneurial/self-employed so working for someone has been hard. I want to go as fast as my mind is capable of and take the company to where I know it needs to go but I don't always have the power/authority to do that.
I've been thinking about starting a side hustle so that I can put that entrepreneurial energy somewhere rather than trying to steer this bus from the passenger seat.
For me I stop looking at whats in front of me and refocus on the [bigger] picture.
Focusing on delivering customer value is much more motivating than focusing on the hundred of lines of code, pull requests, internal meetings, etc...
Hmm, I've been kind of thinking about the opposite. I think it's the big picture that can de-motivate me sometimes. Especially if I can envision where we need to go but it's a long road between there and where we are.
That's why I love IH. I never thought of that perspective before. I personally think everyone has their own motivators and de-motivators. It can be easy to categorize people into this or that group. But "if it works - double down on it".
Also for me, it helped being around a bunch of military veterans in my area. Sitting next to a 90 year old marine can motivate a rock to walk. So connecting with your community also helps burnout.
Bigger picture thinking works for me - for now. Iv'e changed strategies many times and probably will in the future as I grow in the [start-up] game.
You basically combat burnout by identifying and fixing stressors and by balancing the activity that burns you out — it’s a systemic approach. I coach on that, so if you’re interested shoot my a message
Thanks. Identifying exactly what contributes to burnout is a good point.
Have you tried taking breaks at regular intervals?
I recently had a need gap - Remind me to take break when working from home posted on my problem validation platform.
This is a common problem faced by many, including myself and so I created Butt Pomodoro - A butt triggered pomodoro timer to address the problem of forgetting to take breaks, resulting in burnouts and productivity loss.
If any indie hacker is interested in building a commercial solution out of Butt Pomodoro, feel free to do so and I've linked to a business plan to get you started as well.
Cool idea. I could certainly be better about it. I think one of the issues is that, in lockdown, there's not much to do during breaks that actually disconnects you from work. So I'm still thinking about it even if I'm taking a break.
I wrote a blog post about that not long ago if it can help: https://thevaluable.dev/burnout-software-developer/
In your case, I would say: take some time off and try to remember why you began this job at the first place. What's the goal? The purpose? Do you have enough support from your colleagues and close relative? Are you aligned with the values of your companies?
These are important questions. Burnout is not only overworking (even if it's often part of the mix), it's losing as well the "why" you're doing something.
That's a good point. For me I think they are tied together. When I get overworked and have a lot of things I need to get done, it gets harder to remember the "why" of it all.
Time off is certainly a good idea but I'm not sure what I would even do with time off during COVID lockdown. I think I would just end up sitting around and thinking about work.
Yeah. I know what you mean. Maybe you have some other interests, like hiking? You can go for a walk everyday, too, it can help. Or doing some sport. Maybe you like watching movies? Reading? Even with a lockdown, there are still possibilities.
That's true. I've started writing articles on Medium and that's been an enjoyable outlet. Still seeking out other hobbies.
Get away from the computer and go have fun!
This is a good question @SeanLikesData.
It can be hard, especially when building a business to maintain "balance" with everything going on in life. Naturally, when trying to focus on building a business or project, there is going to be tradeoffs which can lead to what one could view as imbalances. I think this is the price of trying to build something that will stand the test of time though.
It is important not to lose sight of the things that are most important in life though. Taking time each day to enjoy the small things and be grateful is key.
I agree. Gratitude is definitely a key component.
Here are a few things that might help:
More importantly, introspect to know if you are at a place you want to be. Good luck!
Journaling actually has been a big help. I started journaling in the morning to clear my head before launching into the tasks of the day and it seems to help gather enthusiasm for what's ahead.
There's a lot to say about preventing another burnout in the future, but as for getting out of one already happening, there's really not much else to do but rest. It can be like having a cold in that way. Not sure if you have any vacation time or paid time off, but if you do, take it. If not, talk to your team about some increased boundaries, even if temporary. Doesn't matter that you can't go anywhere or do anything fun with the time. Just having space away from the job can help. Reading, home improvement, physical activity can all help your brain rest and body heal. The book Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang can really change the way you think about work and rest and helped me change my lifestyle enough to prevent chronic burnout.
I'll give Rest a look. It sounds familiar, I may have gotten the recommendation before.
I think I have trouble justifying spending time not working when there isn't anything else to go do, but you make a good point, that time needs to be taken either way.
Go figure whether the thing you're dealing with is depression or really a burnout. There's a subtle difference between them which might be difficult to recognize.
You got this Sean!
Disclaimer: I'm no expert in burnout, but the following has helped me a bit so far.
I started reading The Boron Letters mostly for the copywriting lessons, but the very first chapter is all about taking care of yourself. You can read the first chapter (letter) for free: http://www.thegaryhalbertletter.com/Boron/BoronLetterCh1.htm
To summarize, take the mornings to do a physical activity right after you get out of bed - he suggests a walk. This sets the tone for the rest of the day.
I've started to feel somewhat burnt out from being locked up, too. I'm on day 2 of this and it's pretty crazy how much of a positive impact it has had on my mental state.
I decided to click on your Twitter and maybe....
you should post more Swing Dance videos! Post it on TikTok or more on Twitter or more on Instagram. Maybe play to your VP of Growth nature, but apply it to something that seems to bring you enjoyment.
Good luck, brother!
Also, glad you checked out the swing dance videos haha. I should really get out and do that more too.
Checking out the Boron Letters now. I like the physical activity right out of bed idea--I find that the way my morning starts usually has a huge impact on the way the rest of my day unfolds.
It's important to take a break and do other things to clear the mind.
From my book:
Hey quick question about your book sales: are you counting your sales and manually donating trees or is that a feature built in to Gumroad?
I will do it manually for every buyer once Gumroad sends me the money.
Each buyer will get a nice personalized tree certificate in their email, and I get to do something good to the world 😇
Burnout is an issue I face as well. The key for me is to be sensitive and responsive to my own body. When I start to burn out, I can already detect that my productivity has dropped significantly. This tells me that I need to stop right away and take my mind off of work. I find relaxing outside such as walking and running to be effective, as is relaxing by just listening to music or sleeping. If I don't do these things the burnout will get worse and productivity will drop to less than half. Therefore the best thing to do to raise productivity is to stop working and relax. It sounds counterintuitive, but it's more productive than working at less than half capacity with burnout.
One more comment is to avoid screen time as much as possible. Good luck!
All super important points. Thanks :)
One of my friends consults management-consultants / CEOs of small companies to help them increase performance. I can put you in touch.
Thanks! Maybe in the future, if I can't figure out how to break the pattern.
This is tricky, as you can't just not show up to work like us indie hackers while you recharge in private.
The first thing I'd do is to say exactly what you've said to us to your boss, and see if you and your boss can work something out to allow you to work more productively and sustainably.
Even machines need rest, let alone human beings.
Apart from that, I'd be as permissive and indulgent with my free time as much as possible outside of work for a couple of weeks, see if it helps things back at work.
Literally be the laziest sack of shit possible: play video games, eat out, binge Netflix, skip workouts, etc. etc.
You really need to decompress, and even doing that after work wouldn't really help that much, but it's a start.
I love this advice :)
"Literally be the laziest sack of shit possible: play video games, eat out, binge Netflix, skip workouts, etc. etc."
I got so many thoughtful comments on here I think I just ran out of "likes". I'll respond to the rest tomorrow, but thank you all for being so supportive and for sharing your ideas and experiences.
This comment was deleted 4 years ago.
Yeah, good point. I think it's interesting how many similarities there are between the symptoms of depression and burn-out. Like burn out is short term "work depression". Especially when it comes to things like no longer finding enjoyment in things you used to enjoy.