I have €4586 left. I can't trust myself anymore.
There was a storm. And I went for a walk by the beach. The sand was going in circles and flowing low around the edges, making roads and dunes and filling my pockets with air and dust and sorrow.
I was tired. I was scared. I didn't know what else to do.
I checked my bank account. Again. 4586.63€.
Maybe I was one of those guys. You know, you can see it in their eyes—those who want you to make his "million-dollar" idea for 50% of the profits.
You immediately know when you see one. You know he's not going to make it.
I was afraid to be one.
I used to be a developer. But I hated it. I don't know if I was a good one. Or even a bad one. Or even a regular one. I didn't like it. So it doesn't matter.
I tried to become a copywriter. I failed. I tried to start a company. And another one. And another one. And another one. Yes. I know. I know.
I have already read all the advice. All the books. All the comments.
All the projects I started, I believed, were brilliant ideas. Maybe I don' have what it takes. Maybe It wasn't meant to be. Who knows. I don't know.
The sad thing is... I can't trust myself anymore.
That's painful. It hurts. It makes me want to run through the dunes under the storm and disappear forever with the wind.
But I don't even know how to do that. Because I always want to come back and try again.
But I can't trust myself anymore because I failed. And I failed the promises I made to the ones that trusted me.
And I want to cry because I also failed them.
It breaks me to look into my other half's eyes and say again: this time is different.
It's never different and I die inside.
It breaks me into pieces, and those pieces break again, and what is left is what I am, the broken pieces left.
Dreams, goals, all into the broken pile with the ashes of what is left of me, under the sand, wind, and sorrow.
Maybe I am not the kind of person that knows how to do something. But I don't know what else to do. I don't know. I don't know.
Hey Jose I know this isn’t probably what you want to hear but if I were you I’d find a job to pay the bills and keep building things on the side …
I lost the client I had at the end of last year and have been trying to find another job or client since then.
Try to find jobs on weworkremotely dot com, dynamitejobs dot com, remoters dot net and more sites and keep applying endlessly. If there are third party recruiters first then directly email the company. If an 18 year old kid from a tier-3 country can land a job then you can as well. Believe in yourself.
Doing it!! Thank you!
Oh I’m sorry to hear that! You’re good at writing and there are a lot of content marketing agencies out there so maybe you could try reaching out to them?
No worries! I tried but zero response. Any advice on how to approach this?
Have you tried on Upwork or Fiverr. Upwork can bring quality clients.
Yes, this may work.
Can you write to me at [email protected] if you are open to freelance.
B2B SaaS for smb (travel agencies) about 30k MRR in Europe.
So far we scaled with coldcalls and outbounds strategies mainly in french market.
We need to start inbound marketing from zero to extand in the US market where outbound canvassing des not work as well as in southern Europe markets.
There is a lot to do !
I emailed you! Thanks!
I'm not an expert at this to be honest. Make sure to show them proof that you know how to write content that resonates with people (by linking to your best IH posts for example).
Damn, I feel this. I'm 34 and started this journey about 4 or 5 years ago. I had an initial optimism that has slowly been eroded away as each year passes with little progress. This is despite quitting my full-time job and moving to part-time hours for years.
I think your post will speak to a lot of people who have experienced such sustained lack of progress. Sometimes I think this whole thing was a mistake and I should resign to a wage.. how many more years will I "waste". And yet, as you repeated a few times, I cannot stop, I refuse to take no for an answer.
How long have you been trying? What is causing you to continue? It may be painful but this is an ideal phase to learn true resiliency, determination and discipline. I hope you continue to push forward.
What changes have you made in your approach over the years? Or is it the same failed year repeated 4 or 5 times?
What would your brother equally as smart and competent as you but with a different personality or beliefs try as a founder?
They're good questions. I wasted the first 3-4 years building stuff I never released. Then I spent 14 months building something without a price tag.
I know exactly where I'm going wrong. I'm too focused on building instead of marketing. It's just been a long, long road to line everything up. The real challenge has been to push forward with a growing scepticism. I would have been fine if I'd experienced a bit of success in the first couple of years.. as the OP touched on.. losing trust in yourself is devastating.
Wow. Those first 3-4 years sound horrible and the one after it sounds like a huge improvement.
What do you think of the strategy of building and launching a micro product every 2-4 weeks?
My rationale for spending more time on a project was that it takes a long time to dig deep into particular domain and problem space. 14 months into my project I'm able to build value I simply couldn't build early on because I didn't have the knowledge or foundations.
I also believe this helps in terms of competition because it's generally much more difficult for other small teams to copy or evolve the idea.
I think 2-4 week projects are barely enough time to figure out your audience, marketing strategy, write content/outreach or refine your offer, let alone build something. I don't know how I could conclude anything after such a short amount of time.
I have thought of how to reduce the time-to-market significantly, and one of my next ideas is a suite of tools to help with research, development (boilerplate app) and marketing.
I would say my ideal timeframe is a few months for an MVP + initial marketing. I think this gives enough time to settle into an idea.
Hi Jose, why not freelance for a while? You have various skills you can monetize - writing copy, coding, etc. Sign up for Upwork, Fiverr, Freelancer, etc.
Hi!! Yes, I'm actively looking for some work I can do. Those sites pay ok? I thought the prices there were very low.
There are projects of all sizes available there. Bid on them with a strong proposal and you shouldn't have an issue making an extra $1000-$2000 per month (or more, if you build case studies and get good reviews). It's how I got my start online. I did copywriting projects there.
Man that definitely requires a lot of guts to share. You might have failed, but it has only increased your chances of success.
Don't give up hope, just yet José . Though you mentioned in another comment that you were 40. I've seen several entrepreneurs who faced struggle in the beginning.
@dagorenouf was a real inspiration how he turned the tables with marketing though he didn't get traction in the first 2 years. I guess he too was almost exhausted but he's doing great now.
I keep trying, you see, I have a new last project I'm trying, but even I enjoy it a lot, I'm dying inside with the worries and fears.
I'm almost 38, not 40 yet, but getting closer.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Hey Jose, I can sympathize obviously with anyone who suffers but beating yourself up with negative thoughts of failure has never helped anyone. Looks like you are too deep in your own mind, fighting with yourself. A way out is to focus on helping others, pro bono or not, this will move your focus away from yourself and into empathizing with fellow humans. There are much worse things than an empty wallet.
Thank you! Can you think of one thing I can do to help others?
You can approach NGOs nongovernment organizations or charities or not-for-profit organizations, cold turkey, or via friends. Part of their job is to know how to direct people who want to help to the proper location and job. There is a major refugee crisis in Europe unfolding caused by the war.
I do not know you so it is hard to tell specifically, but if your posts truly reflect your mental state, any change of work and social environment will be beneficial.
José, that was brave. Thank-you for sharing. You’re brave to keep trying and brave to share your struggle. Your IH friends are all pulling for you.
fear not the man who practiced 10.000 kicks once, I fear the man who practiced one kick 10.000 times - Bruce Lee
How long did you try each idea? A lot of the times it seems like a failure, even though it’s more about not having given it enough time.
When I started a company in 2011 I gave it 1000 days to succeed. I knew I would give in without a meaningful ramp. Maybe you didn’t give yourself a fair chance to succeed?
Hope you find your way!
That's 100% correct, but I always run off of money. I need a better plan for the future.
Some time ago I tried to start a couple of businesses and I failed. Yes, I was depressed, the money was running out and I decided to return to work. I renewed the money resource, after which it got a little better. For some time I tried to cope with my emotional state on my own, but then I realized that I needed a specialist help. After working with a psychotherapist, I began to feel much better
That's something I will consider when I make money again. Thanks for sharing!
There is so much honesty in this post, that requires a lot of guts !
My 2 cents ⤵️
I advise you to try to do everything that could allow you to escape negativity, and focus on what could bring you clarity (which will lead your mind and your choice to the life you want to have).
This of course is very general advice. We are all different. For me, clarity mean :
Going part-time tech freelancing while traveling at the same time, for at least a year, in order to have a solid base of freelancing cashflow. I could then be able to reduce or increase my freelancing time if I need cash or if I need to try new ideas.
Having a strong sport / sleep / diet routine
Finding external support. It can be
2.1) Friends
2.2) Family
2.3) The indie hacker community (this post itself shows you need to be listened, and there is nothing wrong with that)
2.4) A coach, a mentor
2.5) And of course, a psychologist ! About Pieter Levels you just said "He's a legend. I can't compare.". You know, he went to a therapist too ! https://twitter.com/levelsio/status/1324165513170292736
My problem comes from:
If I have money and my work consists in:
I'd be ok.
Last year, before losing my gig, I went to 13 countries. I exercised and ate very well. All the anxiety began after losing my job and living off my savings.
My problems are money problems.
I am not saying that with the money I won't have problems. I will have other issues, but not these problems.
Thanks for your reply!
It's tough.
Depends on your age, if you are young, set some goals and if that fails, get a job.
I got a job when I graduated back right after dot com crashed. A year later, I decided to quit and work on my startup project, a project I did for msft research back in university. 3 months down the road, it didn't go anywhere even though I was extremely happy, productive and working all the time, I went to get a job. One thing lead to another, 15 years gone by and I have the financial strength to do indiehacking again.
How is it going now for you? Thanks for sharing your story!
Not going anywhere but at least not worry about starving and paying bills
That'd be good!
How do you create a “series” newsletter on IH? That looks cool.
Info here: https://www.indiehackers.com/contribute
For most of my life I would have been thrilled to have 4586.63€ in my bank account!
I think you are in a strong position having dev skills, too. Maybe you can work some contract jobs you hate, save up more money and explore other options between gigs. Maybe you can even improve as a copywriter to where you can live off that skill or maybe you can learn another.
If you haven’t been in the job market for a while, I’d try remote job boards or getting a recruiter. You might have to brush up on some old skills but the dev hiring market is currently on fire! 🔥🔥🔥
Companies are overly risk-adverse, but once you get back in the market, it will get easier.
That money will fly in less than two months with rent and expenses.
It's true what you said, they are scared because of my entrepreneurial journey. I keep trying! Thanks!
Okay. Here is something that worked for me once and may help you, if you're serious. I apologize in advance if the suggestion is too direct. Please understand it all comes from a place of love!
Starting now, finding a job is your job. Every day, from 9am to 5pm, you check job boards, apply to suitable looking jobs, interview if you have any lined up and then spend the rest of your time doing things that will help you get a job. This means improving your resume, contributing to open source projects sponsored by companies or heavily used by them.
Then at 5pm, you take a deep breath and try to enjoy your evening, take walks, read, talk to your friends, post on IH... whatever you feel like! If you stay up to late or end up drinking too much or something, just roll out of bed the next day, going "ugh, this is rough" and do your job (of job hunting) again from 9-5 and then get an earlier night's sleep so you'll be ready for the next day.
Take it seriously and you will have a polished resume, personal projects site, and growing success in your interviews. But you can still relax each evening and live on a schedule no worse than you did when you had your last job.
I hope this is helpful and believe in your ability to succeed!
I like the idea of putting a stop every day at 5. Thanks for this carefully
thought-out comment!
You have 2 choices:
Give up (and check out early, or don't, same thing -- you're dead inside anyway by this point); or
Take a break, recharge, and then carry on.
Which will you choose?
You mention you're nearing 40.
When will you decide, "It's no longer worth the effort if I don't see success?"
40? 50? 60? 70?
Only you can answer this question.
I'm just saying, if you have other things you want to achieve in your life besides starting and growing a successful startup, don't put your life on hold anymore and go do all the things you've always wanted to do.
You've earned it at this point, even if you still have little to show for it.
You could die anytime, and -- startup success or not -- time waits for no man.
If you've decided you won't give up, great. Figure out what went wrong. Do a full diagnosis of what made you fail in your past attempts. Pinpoint your mistakes and don't make them again in your next attempt. Conserve your energy and be more conscientious as to where you're investing your efforts.
Literally put it down on paper.
List out your projects, list out how far you got with them, and then list out why they failed.
Brainstorm as many reasons as possible as to why those attempts didn't bear fruit.
Get feedback from IH if necessary.
Once you've done that, make sure your next attempt avoids all of those pitfalls.
I think that's a good starting point for you, apart from taking a break and doing some of the things you love to recharge your soul and regain your spirit.
You sound really depressed now, and so long as you haven't solved that you won't achieve startup success.
Remember, starting and growing a successful startup is an extremely challenging and monumental task.
It's very normal to fail at it, so you're not statistically an outlier or anything.
Lick your wounds and, with enough time and self-love, do please get back to work.
You're not even 40 yet, the show must go on.
Thanks! I need money now! I am not looking for "success," just enough money to live with the freedom to live a humble life.
Hi Jose,
I have been in a similar situation 4 years ago, when my first child was born. Although not that low, I was trying to create a product that never took-off. I was slowly but surely running out of money. I needed a plan B.
What I did as a short-term solution is update my LinkedIn profile with key words like "C++ developer" and "back-end engineer" (which I was pretty decent at) and my phone started ringing like crazy.
Head-hunters actually have alerts when new people in a given area amends their profile with certain keywords. If you have listed your coordinates appropriately, they will call you.
After only two weeks, I was working in a new team as a freelancer. Head-hunters take a (rather big) commission on the deal, but you still have a very decent amount of money left on the table. They ask for your daily rate (DR) and ask for DR x 1.3 to the final customer (x1.15 is the bear minimum), > 1.3 they get a prime). Don't be too greedy, having an hourly paid job is better than no job at all, all you have to do is working 1 or 2 extra h / week to align with your expectations if you didn't get as much as you expected.
You can also ask for head-hunters to add you to their list, where they send every job offer they have to find someone for. I did, got subscribed to approx. 4 lists and I have received 847 opportunities at this time of writing over 4 years (I sort them in a special e-mail folder).
In addition to paying the bills, it will also buy you time. By not constantly having to think about money, you'll retrieve time to self-audit why you didn't succeed until now, and what to do next. Your stress will decrease and that will help you take better decisions.
The second benefit from working in a team on someone else's project is that you'll start noticing some real problems the company faces and how it deals with it in real-time. This could give you some bankable problems to think about and solve and hypothetically an early customer to test it ("Look I've designed this on my spare time to solve XXX we are struggling with").
Nearly no move is irreversible, not working on a project of your own doesn't mean you won't ever in the future. You have an urgent short-term problem to solve right now, in the two coming months (finding a decent source of income). Solve that, buy time, decrease your stress, assess what went wrong, and go back to your ideas when you are better armed.
Good luck (I mean it)!
I second the idea to try and find a job and them keep hustling on the side. Rember @levelsio interview on the IH podcast, so many failures and just a tiny amount of wins.
He's a legend. I can't compare.
Hi Jose, I don't you well enough to make any assumptions, but I felt your pain through your words. As someone who studied copywriting in college, I think you're actually quite good with words. Income certainly doesn't define your self-worth, but I understand that it could be anxiety-inducing to have savings draining. Try to combine your skills and market yourself on Linkedin or Medium. If stripe supports your bank, you can even monetize through Medium. In that way, you can cover your short-term and long-term financial needs with a potential job offer and also build a following.
That'd be amazing but I don't see that as a short-term thing I guess a job would do! (for now)
Wow, that was intense. You rarely find that level of sincerity on the Webs.
It could be that you just need to join someone else's effort, or find someone who would take your idea to success?
Maybe, I don't know. I have no idea what to do now.
But thank you for reading.
Just because you failed doesn't make you a failure.
You can write copy, you can code, and you have startup experience. You're a hot commodity with plenty of options.
After several attempts, it's hard not to feel that, with no money and almost 40.
But I like to be a hot commodity, hope that's true!
What is important about 40?
A lot!