Is luxury really worth it?
I cannot believe people spending 1000s of $s on glossy handbags. And then their friends see it and they also want to buy it. But is it really worth it? Does it add value to the individual, does it add any tangible enjoyment to the person.
Do we seriously have a bunch of dudes talking about the value of women's purses? Really? Couldn't pick something a little closer to home that you spend money on?
Me, I have a multi-thousand-dollar handbag collection now. I didn't 6 months ago and would have laughed at the idea. Why? I had one cheap bag I used for 3 years. And then it literally fell apart on me, and I couldn't get a replacement and it was so busted it couldn't be fixed.
I was so freaking pissed (I hate change) that I vowed it would never happen again.
Looking for a high quality bag that would last and last, and that I could get multiples of…… I found my favorite brand. Are they a luxury brand? No. Are they cheap? No. Do I sigh a little happy sigh every time I pick one of the bags up because they're so well made and beautiful and functional? Yes I do, which is how I ended up buying a bunch of them instead of just one or two.
Did I end up buying a couple Louis Vuitton bags secondhand because they fulfill a purpose for me that I couldn't meet with other bags? Yep I sure did.
Is it worth it? Yes it sure is.
Am I broke now? No.
I had no idea how NICE it is to have a nice bag. I was missing out.
Would you judge someone's financial choices for buying an IKEA sectional sofa? Say that they only buy it to impress? Those can cost up to $2,000-3,000 you know. From IKEA.
Here's the bottom line: Nice things function better and last longer. Many very expensive things are actually made like crap and not nice at all, and some remarkably cheap things are very nice. If you're used to buying the cheap crap and suddenly you get one nice thing, the difference is inredible. And nice things can often be had second hand because they last (because they're nice!).
I don't know anyone in real life who would care what stuff I have, and I don't spend money to impress people because anyone who would be impressed by spending is not someone I'd like to know.
To which I would add… there are a lot of assumptions in here about "why people buy xyz" but no quotes from anyone who's actually one of those buyers. If you go and read their forums, you'll see that few of them care about impressing people (although the Hermes buyers definitely do, they're a class of their own).
Sure, the commonsense explanation is "Luxury is all about showing off [and I'm not a showoff, luxury is really worthless]." But another commonsense explanation is lso "Creating your own business is stupid and risky and nobody ever really succeeds anyway" -- which is also false, if you look at the people who actually do it.
Another reason that never occurred to me until I read Code of the Street is how much discrimination middle class black families face in Chicago suburbs, and how much dressing up helps with that.
Great point. That makes clothing a bonafide value delivery mechanism.
Downvoted, really… for saying the data isn't there?
Seems like somebody wanted only one "right" answer to the question.
A luxury item is (IMO) one which provides the same (or less) utility than the rational choice, but at a higher price.
The rational choice is obviously dependent on your personal situation.
My girlfriend's macbook pro is almost certainly a luxury, for example. She derives no more utility from it than she would a normal macbook (actually even less, because it is heavier and she complains about carrying it during her commute) - but she got it because it is 'supposed to be the best'.
My luxury purchases tend to be smaller but more frequent - a first-class train ticket now and again, for example, even though there is pretty much no difference between first and second class where I'm from.
That's not how anyone else defines luxury, and more importantly, you're saying your girlfriend's priorities are not as important or rational as yours. That only your view of utility is right. That's not a good look.
That's possible but highly unlikely. One Merriam Webster definition of luxury is 'something that is expensive and not necessary' - that doesn't see too far off my definition to me. Also, I said in my opinion.
Did you really read my comment? That's not at all how I intended it to come across and on rereading I think you really have to stretch to misinterpret me so unfavourably.
Perhaps I should have said 'my girlfriend views her macbook pro as a luxury' instead. She was, after all, the one who herself said it isn't a rational decision but she decided to go with the best to treat herself. That was just her view - absolutely nothing to do with what I think (although coincidentally I agree with her on this).
I then went on to say that I make silly luxury decisions as well, albeit more frequent, smaller ones so they maybe aren't as obvious. That definitely doesn't imply that my girlfriend's priorities are less important or rational than my own.
I'm going to be generous and assume this comment is partly due to my poor writing skills and perhaps you just had an off moment.
That said, one of the reasons Indie Hackers is so amazing is that users generally take the time to read and understand posts thoroughly before providing a thoughtful and proactive response. For whatever reason, you didn't do either part here - and that's not a good look.
This is unmistakable snark:
Your scare quotes and "actually even less" are snark, clear as day.
And now you're being passive aggressive by saying how "users generally take the time to read and understand." I did read and I understood just fine.
How interesting it is that all the complaints and judgy snark about "luxury" goods in this thread are men talking about women.
Not 100% sure what "snark" means, but I have a rough idea from the context.
You're welcome to interpret my comment however you wish. But don't presume to tell me what I am trying to say. There's just no way you, a complete stranger, have any authority (moral or otherwise) to tell me what I mean. It says a lot about your character that you think you do.
Not passive aggressive - that quote goes on to call you out directly for being ignorant, rash, and impolite. I tried to alert you to your mistake in a gentler way (in keeping with the positive attitude normally seen on IH) - however if it didn't quite sink in, I hope this more direct approach worked.
Very possible. I suggest you take issue with them (and rightly so!) instead of wasting your time tilting at windmills. Your general point still holds true, you were just unlucky to be wrong this time, and I called you out on it.
No, it does not.
What it does do is keep people poor.
Wealthy people don’t make irresponsible purchases generally, that’s how they become wealthy.
Instead they spend on things that appreciate in value.
Exactly. The "poor" minds thinks they have money because can buy expensives things but they are poor because don't have knowledge about what it's save money and invest.
It's kind of stupid but some brands of bags do actually appreciate in value.
It's kind of stupid but precious metals appreciate in value. Oh and so do imaginary things called "bitcoins"…?
I completely agree. They need to get on that Bill Gate Coupon lifestyle. For those of you unfamiliar with that:
https://medium.com/@bargain/bill-gates-coupons-50e2b4757654
TL;DR
The story claims that he was in the checkout line of one of his local grocery stores and was holding up the rest of the line.
He was emptying his pockets in search of a $0..50 cent off coupon!!!!!!
This is actually a story that illustrates ridiculously irrational economic behavior. If your time, when applied to business things, makes 10x, you should not waste minutes of your life looking to save 0.00050x. It is a literal waste of both time and money, not to mention social capital because rudeness isn't going to make you friends.
Yes we are all naturally cognitively biased to fear loss (of 50 cents) more than we want gain (of the $10 we could be making with that time if we applied ourselves) but that's no reason to turn it into some kind of analogy for frugal sainthood.
Bill Gates was never poor, he never needed to waste minutes on 50 cents. It's the kind of story that suckers people who believe that they too could become a business magnate if only they pinch enough pennies. That isn't enough. You can't pinch more pennies into existence.
People who work regular jobs who scrimp and save become one type of wealthy (after many long, hard years, at retirement). People who invest in creating a scalable business can become a totally different type of wealthy.
And then he spent $63 million dollars on the construction of a house.
To be fair he was a millionaire for decades before buying the lot when he was around 40. The guy is focused—maybe not as frugal as Warren Buffett—but the house is like a 10 minute drive from Microsoft.
How much is the house worth now?
About $400m less than the equivalent MSFT stock.
Once you hit $1m sales price, the housing market takes a huge dip (outside of a very few locales). But once you hit double digits, sales take years… if ever. Fancy houses are a terrible asset.
So true.. the wealthiest people I know are the stingiest. The ones easiest to part from their $ live paycheck to paycheck
My favorite related story on that is a wealthy banker working with John Morgan who they find at the police department because he thought the taxi driver was over charging him.
I think it is hard to build a model of the world that revolves around navigating paths that are scored on money—and not have that bleed over all the possibilities you perceive in the world.
Comfort matters a lot more than luxury.
(I say this as someone who lives in a 7.5x7.5 ft room and has very few possessions).
It absolutely matters. It's a means to accomplish so much with very little. In some circles (not all), it's a way to signal a variety of traits including seriousness, professionalism, etc. Additionally, people want to feel good and have different triggers for that. For some, that means shipping code. For others, it means looking nice.
I think the trick for us IHs is to identify in what contexts do people want to signal and in what way. If you can seize upon that and deliver a product for it (could be fashion, could be something else), you're onto something.
You have some good points, and i also feel like this suggestion wud make me profit from the bad habits that humanity has picked up in recent times.
Humans have been hoarding gold for a few millenia, appreciating shiny things and showing off are not a recent habits by any means.
Is it worth it? Depends (as always) and is relative to you. Buy things/experiences that enrich your life. And—obviously—only spend the money you can spent.
Some examples:
To some, the items on this list are considered luxury. To others they are not. To some these items are ridiculous, to others they'll make their live (even) more enjoyable.
I grew up in a family that didn’t really value expensive things. Literally the only “expensive” thing my parents bought were Apple computers... everything else was the cheapest option possible.
Every time I use a high-end luxury item now, it’s like a little slice of heaven. They’re just crafted better and are a joy to use and own day to day.
Even the tiniest details add up to a lot more enjoyment when something is used every day.
I’d rather pay extra to be in heaven every time I use something than cheap out and be regretful about some aspect of it every day.
I would not agree that just because enjoyment isn't tangible that it doesn't add any value to the person.
I'm not a huge fan of hypotheticals so here is my real world example. I have struggled with my weight my entire life and it is something that is deeply personal is a downer. This year, I have decided to make a change for the better and have already lost 30lbs.
I set a goal/reward for myself that when I get to my goal weight, I am going to buy a custom tailored suit. This means i'm going to spend upwards of $1,800 on a material item that i'm not going to get "tangible" enjoyment out of.
With that being said, there is deep meaning behind the purchase as to how far I have come and what I have achieved. I will presumably 'look' better in it but I also will also feel more confident.
Additionally, I have purchased cheap suits my whole life that wilt/fall apart after like 1 or 2 dry cleanings (and off the rack suits aren't cheap to begin with) so the extended utility over a cheap suit also exists.
I've been grappling with the idea of this lately because I've always found it really dumb too and I'm starting to change my mind. I think if you're poor it's a phenomenally bad idea. But if you're one of the more affluent members of society it's a good way to signal that. It's why that sort of shit exists. It's a status symbol. A lot of people will think that thinking that way is vain and stupid but when you think about status actually really matters. If I were Uber rich I wouldn't buy a yacht because I wanted one, I'd buy a yacht to get better access to the people that had yachts because they are obviously more high powered and we'll connected. So as a strategy in life being around people that are at a higher level than you generally works better than doing the opposite hence gaining status as a goal isn't a terrible one.
Are you saying there are some people who will meet you only if you have a yacht?
I'm saying the probability of being able to gain access to high status individuals increases if one is able to display that one is also an individual of high status. So my point that is that if you aren't well off there is little point in pretending and you are flushing your money away, however there are circumstances in which you could even get ROI on such things if you played the strategy right (and if that's how you want to play the game).
So buying a leather hand bag for $100 which is actually worth only $10 is called as status symbol?
How do you figure the handbag is only "worth" $10?
Probably not? But a Hermes bag probably.
Well, from Jobs to be done framework, its doing a "social" job.
Like a lot of things it depends on culture. Some people just appreciate good handbags like how some people appreciate nice cars and nice watches. I see this in people who actually work in the fashion industry or designers. Some people just want (or need) to use it for signalling i.e. I belong to a specific social class. This is extremely common in Asia, which is one of the many reasons why counterfeit products exist. When I think about it people in certain professions NEED to do this to signal value like lawyers and people working in finance.
I learnt that there are many different people who set their priorities different. I'm a guy who don't think, that someone does need expensive stuff but there are people who "happy" with those things.
I mean you could take advantage of that and sell products to people who are willing to pay a lot of money for a product.