Moonlight your idea or save enough for a runway and quit your full time?
Just curious how you did it or are planning on doing it - those who are transitioning from full time jobs.
I find it hard to give 100% on 2 different projects. I'm tempted to save enough to give myself a runway for a year or more but curious to hear how you're going about it.
I waited until my business had ~$2,200 MRR to quit my job. Looking back, that was still far too early. Part of the reason I feel this way is specific to my business, but the first couple of years after quitting my job were very, very hard.
If I could do it all over again, I would stay at my job and enjoy a full-time income, socializing with co-workers (underrated imo, especially if you're introverted like me), etc, etc, while continuing to build up my business on the side.
Yes, you can't give 100% to both. But having a job will force you to give 100% to the right things in your business. There are a million things that you could be doing, but only a few things that you should be doing.
Whatever you decide, do make sure to save money. The longer runway you can stash away, the more options you'll have.
This is great advice - I'm going through my first year (quit my job in January) and will whole heartedly agree that it's very, very, VERY hard!
Good luck! 🤞
Thank you! It's inspiring and reassuring to hear your story because it reminds me that the obstacles I'm facing right now are not unique...but rather something that 99.9% of entrepreneurs go through.
Totally. The overnight success is largely a myth. We all toil 😩
You can still work out of a coworking spaces / cafes even if you're solo.
Cafes don't (at least for me) give the same interactions as an office space and can be super distracting, and coworking spaces cost money that sometimes is tough on a shoestring budget.
I agree both are options people should explore and evaluate, but my point is mostly that they aren't always real options especially if you only have $2200MRR and live in a US city where rent is 50%+ of that.
Good points. Did you consider traveling to cheaper locations? I understand its not an option if you have a family etc.
Thanks for your response. I can see the value in that approach. It seems like it's unrealistic to think you can be profitable in your first year anyway - I'm sure a few have done it but I think you'll have to slowly build name recognition, etc.
Did you work every night and weekend on your project? How long did it take for you to earn back to your full time salary?
Yeah, one of the core lessons I've learned is that things always take longer than you think. To your second question, it took me just over 3 years to earn back my full-time salary - and this was a pretty low salary!
Mind you, my naivete during that time was cringeworthy. I like to think that I could cut significant time off my journey if I could do it again, but you never really know - maybe that's just hubris talking.
Back to the runway point - the only reason I stuck with it was because I could. I had about a year of runway at the start, and I cut my expenses so drastically that I didn't need to earn much after that first year from the business to cover them.
Before I quit my job, I worked evenings and weekends. Not all of them, but it was a pretty consistent 1-2 hours each night.
I have heard this sentiment on TMBA and Startups for the Rest of Us podcasts about 3 years until you can pay your own salary and from my own experience this is about the right time frame.
At around 4000usd MRR i went part time salaried/my startup, which cut my then consulting salary by a lot. It took about 2 hard years to get back to that previous level.
As for moonlighting or not. If you can, you should do it this way as long as possible. In my case my startup was high "maintenance" in that it requires more than usual operations work, which I intentionally wanted, but obviously makes it harder to just moonlight on.
Nice job! I agree - moonlighting combined with saving as much as possible is the way I'd go if I had to do it again.
Sometimes you just have to learn the hard way. My first real try I didn't even think about runway.
Now I'm a bit more cautious, but I still don't have much real expenses to worry about. Thanks for the advice, your story really helps me consider what I'd like to do and what ideas make the cut.
You're welcome! I often wonder if "sometimes you just have to learn the hard way" is really true. I certainly did, but could I have made my path easier? Who knows!? 🤔
Moonlight. Definitely. There is no way to tell how long the runway needs to be, and it might be endless if the project doesn't take off.
The first time I did this, I quit my job and had angel investment and we ran out of money and it felt like being disqualified 300m into the 400m race when you were coming first.
The next time I transitioned first into consulting and just kept working on my product. I eased back on the consulting over time. It took about 4 years till I was full time on the SaaS product.
That's still an achievement being able to juggle both consulting and working on your product at the same time. When I consult it feels like a full time gig just trying to line up contracts to pay bills.
Thanks for the advice, once and awhile I feel frustrated by my time constraints but I think I'll need patience. Did you build a SaaS or a marketplace product like a WordPress plugin?
Consulting is definitely feast or famine and I don't want to go back to it. Its a whole art in itself, but my big break came from getting a regular consulting gig that took up 3 days a week and paid my bills. Honestly the biggest battle always has been time. You need to get good at using time well. Ever been surprised how much you got done with a deadline looming?
You don't see your product as feast or famine? Are sales or growth predictable?
So true. I recognize that I treat my full time work with more of a sense of urgency than I do with side work. Ultimately I'd love to take that same hustle to my own business, I haven't mastered that skill yet. I'm not sure why it's such a psychological barrier but it's like my brain knows there's not a real deadline if I set it for myself.
I hired a coach. And took presales. Those put deadlines and accountability in front of me. The product is growing slowly, the income is predictable. We are over 10K a month, with costs at about the same. So there is still no room for extravagance or a misstep.
SaaS product
I've been working on getting a product business going since 2008. I've had some modest successes since then but haven't replaced my day job income yet.
In 2011 I got fired from a job. Rather than go get another job I hated I decided to just go all in on a product business. It didn't work or even come close to working. The move really set me back financially.
What I wish I would have done is just to steadily work on product work on the side and kept a full-time job the whole time.
I'm hesitant to say what anybody else should or shouldn't do, but if I were to do it again, I'd definitely go the route of working on the side instead of waiting until I'd saved up enough money. I actually don't know why you can't do both, though - work on the product while also saving money.
I was working on my side project (www.tribefive.me for reference) while working a full time job. In January, I decided to go full time because like you, I found I wasn't able to give two projects my full attention. That meant Tribe of Five was moving slower than I wanted and I wasn't into it at work (because I was thinking about my project from 9-6pm).
If you don't have any major debt, and can comfortably operate for a year without stressing about basic quality-of-life things (rent, food, basic entertainment), then it's feasible to go full time and give it a try.
I think about the worst case scenario a lot and it's not that bad. If my project doesn't work out...I can ALWAYS go back and get another job.
But if I never tried going full time, then I would always live with the regret of "what if".
Hope this helps!
Jonathan
You made a goal completion app to help complete your goal! That's an awesomely recursive idea. How did you monetize your app eventually?
Thanks! Haven't monetized yet...we JUST launched today as a matter of fact.
Coming up next, we have a couple different business models to test out, including:
But we're only going to do that after we feel that Tribe of Five is adding real value for our members.
What are you working on? And how can I be of help? Feel free to email me (jonathan@tribefive.me). Happy to hop on a call, Google Hangout, or just bounce around ideas.
This journey isn't easy...but it's very fulfilling because I get to meet so many cool Indie Hackers like you!
I would like to try it but I'm rocking Android for the time being. I wish you luck though.
I'm testing an idea of automating the registration of Raspberry Pi's to monitor and control them remotely.
I had a client that had a group of Pi's in a commercial setting and they home baked this system to auto-register Pi's and get basic diagnostic info from them. It wasn't very well done but I think it's a common problem.
If you know anyone that's using Pi's for work or in the IoT industry I'd love to talk to them and see if my idea is actually needed.
Full timer here. I've been consulting for a while and have a decent amount saved up. I live in a cheap area so I have enough runaway for a couple of years. I can also travel around to similarly cheap locations.
I'm just really over consulting by now, and moonlighting has never worked for me, I've never been able to work enough to do a side project while also delivering consulting work on time. Also, I think any side projects you'd do while moonlighting, would have to be small. Any ambitious projects, e.g ones solving a complex technical problem, probably would need too much time to be done while moonlighting.
If you can, consider traveling to a cheap location where your savings can last you a lot longer.
Moonlighting 100%.
It will take you 2x ~ 5x longer to ship a full product (depending on marital and parental status) but you can ship an infinite amount of them. You just have to be disciplined enough to see it all the way through.
I have learned many important lessons I just never would have got moonlighting, and I think from that perspective it has been worth it. Pretty expensive, but I would rather have the learnings than not.
I don't anticipate it working out before my runway is up, but my baseline goal has always been to learn all the hard and soft skills necessary to realistically be able to ship while moonlighting. I could never pull it off before quitting, I think I will not have any problems pulling it off now.
So I guess my feeling on the subject is mixed.
That's the tough part of moonlighting I think. You have a primary source of income that's comfortable and don't have to think about much outside of work.
Sometimes it's hard to get back to the computer after a dealing with a tough problem all day long and it's the last thing you want to do.
I think I need to start with the "why" and create a goal that makes sense for my interests and what I want for my family and I.
Exactly. I'm way too much on my comfort zone with contract work so sometimes I feel like I need to quit it if I want real progress on personal projects.
Maybe going PART-TIME (or 3 or 4 days a week) is the thing! Especially with an IT job you might generate enough money to have a decent life while having enough time to run your own business.
Moonlight because you don't know how much runway you will need. It will be more than you think. No, it will. It's also harder than you think but it's not impossible so don't lose heart.
You need to organise, prioritise and pace yourself.
I took far too long to launch. I spent 5-10 years of working on 2 products (yeah, compound f#k ups - #winning). Most of that work was in the last couple of years. I spent a long time wantrapreneuring and "researching" which means I did a lot of "just in case" learning as opposed to "just in time" learning. #fail One is useful and productive, one is just mental clutter. Grasp the overall picture, make plans and then focus on mastering the task at hand just in time. Organise.
Also, ideas are nice and all but you can't test them, not reliably. Build something and test it, that is much more productive.
If you can reduce your "day job" you can use that time for your product. I try to keep my freelancing to less than 75% of my days. Try. Use that time wisely. Timebox tasks and sandbox them too. Multitasking does not work. Prioritise.
Burnout is a thing. I have spent the last year or more teetering on the edge of the burnout precipice and it's not a good place. When you're tired your real productivity diminishes a lot. Sure you can get lots done but a lot of it is pointless because you've lost track of the big picture or you get it wrong (and then have to fix it later) if you're not concentrating. Pace yourself.
Everything Jeffrey said is spot-on.
So I'm using my vacation from work and college to build one of my side projects, I have 15 days to finish, probably won't be able to do it, on this time frame, but I hope to get enough done to get at least close to finishing, my goal is pretty simple 30$ a day, when I hit that, I'm quitting my job.
The main challenge for me is that i work during the day and have college during the nights so my normal day here in Brazil is:
08h - 18h = Work Hours.
19h - 23h = College
Luckily I'm on my last semester in college and 6 months from now I will probably have my CS Degree which is pretty awesome if by then I still have a fulltime job I will be definitely "moonlighting" my projects.
Just to clarify I have 15 days vacation from work and 30 days from college ( already counting since July 02).
So I have a good month to build my side project.
I've only given this some partial though but it's good to type it out for the sake of this discussion...
My day job (developer at a great company) is extremely lucrative and gives me a lot of freedom. I don't see any real need to leave to work on my project.
I'm lucky that I can focus on this when I need to, so giving 100% at work or on the project is easy most of the time.
My rough plan has been:
By having a time constraint on making money, I feel like I could go back to industry if things don't work out. This prevents me overcommitting to something that isn't working and provides an escape hatch.
Tl/drl: Moonlight with the intent to take runway.
I'm bootstrapping a SASS product that I'm designing and developing myself.
I'm still on pre-validation steps and I'm focusing on first having a solid framework to develop the MVP. For this I'm writing what will be the foundation of the backend app.
First I started working on the afternoons after finishing my day job but it was exhausting so I decided to wake up several hours earlier and that its working better. Now I can tell that I'm moving forward faster and also have more free time in the afternoons/evenings to do non work-related stuff.
I will keep working like this until the product gives me returns similar as my current job. Then I'll quit.
I'm in exactly same situation and phase of the project and I'm doing it exactly like you except I wasn't able to wake up earlier. However I'm lucky that I have flexible working hours in my full time job so I wake up normally, then work few hours on my side project and then continue with my full time job after that until the evening. It's been a year and it works so far...
Can you do both?
It sounds like you are presenting us with two options:
A. Work a full time job and work on your idea on the side, but never really have the energy to give your side project 100%.
B. Work a full time job and save up to leave and give your side project 100%
By why can't you do (C) Work a full time job, save up, and work on your side project part time ?
Working on your side project will probably keep you from spending extra money since you'll be busy working, so it helps with savings, and by the time you are ready to quit your fill time job you will have a rough idea of how your idea is doing and what type of runway you may need.