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My Crypto Investing Mistakes and Lessons (‘20-‘22)

An uncommonly compelling read, from @nateliason about his decision-making and takeaways.

submitted this link to Icon for group Crypto
Crypto
on June 25, 2022
  1. 4

    There's a yin and yang to riding these waves. But it's counterintuitive to know when to follow chaos, and when to follow order. Our guts tell us to get it backwards.

    Chaos. Our guts tell us that if something is new and risky, we should wait and see. Look to others. If it catches on with them, then it's probably safe to shoot our shot. This is a herd mentality. It helped us survive in the jungle when our fellow tribespeople encountered new and risky foods and animals. But it's not great for investing. Great returns come from leading the herd, not following it. Or at bare minimum, fast-following the leaders. This requires the chaos of ignoring your gut instinct for safety.

    Order. It's tempting to be greedy when things are going well. When you get a little success, assume it will easily continue. When the harvest is good, eat more. When the market is up, buy more. When your startup has traction, raise more. When people are listening to you, talk more. In this sense, our guts drive us to chaos when what we should practice is order. The order of self discipline, of risk analysis, hedging our bets, and being willing to take some of our profits off the table.

    1. 2

      Hi Courtland,

      Hunter gatherers knew to be conservative when all was well and only liberal in tough times when something new was the difference between life and death and you might get lucky. I think gut instinct is different. Stanley Druckenmiller says to go with your gut because markets move quickly and then follow that up by research because backing out soon after doesn't cost much. He also thinks one has winning and losing streaks and it's important to recognise those so you don't try to recover losses by betting more when your judgement is poor and you go in big when you're on form.

      Anyway, what I've found most productive over the past couple of years was learning about the Austrian School of Economics as opposed to the Keynesianism beloved by politicians for our lifetimes. Its arguments seem like common sense; they build up from the constrained view of human nature, as defined by Thomas Sowell, to show how economies can best function and how they're corrupted.

      We've lived in a corrupted financial system all our lives. Just because a system is older than us, we find it awkward to think it can be flawed or end but history shows the fiat-money path of the world today has always ended poorly for previous civilisations. Now, the problem is that something which has lasted over a hundred years might fail in three, ten, or thirty so calling the end is not practical. But what can be seen over our lifetimes is each bailout or similar sticking plaster needs to be larger than the last.

      The USA's founding fathers knew not to have paper money and central banks; they'd seen the damage they cause and knew man couldn't be trusted with them; Sowell's constrained view again. The Federal Reserve is outside of the US Government as a workaround. Austrians will explain why a central bank isn't required and that having one corrupts the market signal on the price of money, i.e. how much it costs to borrow. This corruption leads to malinvestment: companies borrow money which is too cheap to make goods which aren't in strong demand. The economy overheats and contraction occurs. The price of money is manipulated to bring inflation under control. The malinvestment is purged by zombie companies which only survived on over-cheap money going to the wall. This boom/bust cycle is typical of a central-bank economy.

      Talking of inflation, we should be living with mild deflation, as the West did in its glory years before the 20th century. Technological progress means things get cheaper, faster, better and a new device replaces more than one old one. This is deflationary. There is nothing wrong with mild deflation but we've been taught it's a dirty word which leads to mass poverty because Governments have debt and deflation makes them harder to pay off. Thus they have inflation targets to erode their debt, and savers' hard-earned savings. A 2% inflation target coupled with 2% deflation through advances means we're really experiencing 4.08% inflation.

      As for Governments, most of the ones we have today are run by their employees for their benefit. This can be seen in their profile of income and outgoings and the change over time. As with a employee-run company, a prime aim is to pay the employees and not to sack the flabby excess, even when the money isn't available, thus chronic deficit occurs leading to growing debt. Because voters might grumble at this, many are co-opted onto the payroll as pseudo-employees of an ever growing state. Sticking with stereotypes, one party in government co-opts the feckless layabout and the other the fat-cat pensioner.

      This doesn't mean no welfare without a welfare state. There used to be Friendly Societies providing welfare based on occupation, religion, location, trade union, etc. These were nationalised and with that the local knowledge of who was feckless and who was deserving went. One letter to 'The Oddfellows Magazine' at the time of Great Britain's 1911 National Insurance Act said:

      ‘Working men are awakening to the fact that this is a subtle attempt to take from the class to which they belong the administration of the great voluntary organizations which they have built up for themselves, and to hand over the future control to the paid servants of the governing class... This is not liberty; this is not development of self-government, but a new form of autocracy and tyranny.’

      As for crypto-currencies, the only sensible strategy is to buy Bitcoin, with dollar-cost averaging if you prefer, and hold it for the long term. It's not a penny stock to be traded at the casino or pumped by a rigged house which always wins. Come back in ten years when it will either have gone to zero or have given a handsome return. It's a sound hard money for the Internet. It's as the gold standard was for the 19th century ending with La Belle Epoque.

    2. 2

      Yes well said I agree with all of this. I especially find the comparison to running a startup interesting.

      Everyone knows "buy low, sell high" but human instinct is very much the opposite you really have to be actively conscious of it.

      1. 1

        “Buy low, sell high” is a true-ism in markets that is overly simplistic and in many cases simply false.

        Buying low often leads to bag holding to zero.

        Once you have the tools to validate your own assumptions, you will find that buying high, and selling higher is often much more profitable.

    3. 1

      Your conclusion is totally right.

      Great returns come from leading the herd, not following it. Or at bare minimum, fast-following the leaders. This requires the chaos of ignoring your gut instinct for safety

      You are describing the need for a plan and trading strategy, based on an observation in the market that is based on zero discretion “gut instinct”.

      The problem is most people simply don’t have a strategy that works. Let alone the infrastructure to automate it.

      I am working on the solution I wish I had when starting out.

      I am building a product that provides users a simple way to trade a profitable strategy optimized for the crypto markets.

      They are send as daily signals and tracks a virtual portfolio with backtest statistics to build confidence into the strategy.

      You simply execute the trades yourself. I don’t have access to your accounts.

      Courtland, I would love to invite you as an early adopter and give you a VIP treatment—all free of charge.

  2. 2

    I like Nat, but what truly ridiculous is how all these top-dogs have been wrong this cycle. All got mad and ignored the bubble, inflation and rate hikes. Literally all.

    Even big guys who manage pension money like Grayscale sit with -50-90%. Complete shit. https://grayscale.com/products/grayscale-digital-large-cap-fund/

    I get the concept of "long-term investment" but when you don't play the market you end up with nothing)

    1. 1

      Totally! Many of these companies also have exterior motives or alternative income streams.

      Long term investing is not the best tool for the crypto markets at this time.

  3. 2

    crypto and investing in the same sentence? =)

    1. 1

      Being skeptical is important. Long term investing in crypto is quite hard because of the volatility.

      This is the problem for many new entrants in the crypto markets. They have a long term investor mindset and often come in with true-isms from traditional markets.

      But there are definitely ways to make the most of a bullrun as aggressive as in crypto.

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    Interesting conclusion:

    The clear overarching lesson is that I should have been more patient and done less.

    At the end of the day, it seems like the good ol' adage holds true: "Time in the market > Timing the market".

    1. 1

      I have done the research and can confidently tell you this is NOT true for the crypto markets.

      In fact.

      Most market true-isms are completely false.

      But many don’t have the tools to validate these assumptions.

  5. 1

    A really honest self-reflection. I think many people who tried investing in crypto experienced this roller-coaster ride, me included. After getting frustrated with murky waters of crypto I actually decided to build a solid trading strategy for myself. It turned out to become my next startup. It is intended for the people who want to the good of crypto without the bad.

  6. 1

    Thanks for sharing your experience

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    Cory Klippsten would be what some would call a "bitcoin maxi", but whether or not that is accurate, his statement here rings true for the "crypto" world. Basically, be prepared to be exit liquidity for a VC firm if you are playing with crypto.

    "There's one thing going on here with 'Web3' aka ICOs / sh*tcoins / crypto / defi, and it's on the second slide of every crypto VC pitch deck:

    SHORT TIME TO LIQUIDITY

    In this brief window of unregulated time they can pump and dump to their hearts' content without consequence."

  8. 1

    Hindsight analysis and missing the point.

    There are no holy grails, but you can become consistently profitable, read to the end.

    You had no plan, and no strategies that actually worked.

    I was in your same shoes once, and lost well in the 6 figures.

    Then I went down the rabbit hole.

    I found many scammers and charlatans.

    Until I started adopting the same process used by hedgefunds and professional traders.

    They approach the markets like scientists.

    It involves observing, researching, developing, backtesting and automating trading ideas and strategies.

    It is a long journey and requires skills most of us don’t have.

    Getting there is simpler said than done.

    But the end is worth it.

    Emotionless strategies that tell you exactly what to do.

    Many that make it there never reveal the secret sauce.

    Until now.

    Do I got your attention?

    I am looking for early adopters, and if you are interested reply to this message or send me a DM.

  9. 1

    I also made many mistakes, like jumping in thinking it would be a smooth ride. But had to learn the hard way at the end of the day

    1. 1

      I feel you. I have been there.

      There’s a way to participate in the markets completely stress free.

      The ride can be much smoother with the right approach and strategy.

      I am looking for early adopters for a product that helps crypto traders with that.

  10. 1

    I'm a beginner and these kinds of posts guide me with practical knowledge that you got through your journey. Thanks mate!

    1. 1

      Seems like you are on a journey to learn. I might have some more info for you, and looking for early adopters of a product to help crypto traders be successful.

  11. 1

    "Time in the market > Timing the market" It is really true!

  12. 1

    Are you getting into this next bull run ? What do you think BTC will get down to ? By when ? And what coins will you buy ?

    1. 1

      A question no one knows. There’s absolutely zero prediction necessary to be profitable.

      The only thing we can do is observe and react.

      If you are looking for a way to be profitable during the next bullrun.

      I am looking for early adopters for a product that does exactly that.

  13. 1

    You seemed to get in on some cryptos before they got properly pumped. How did you find and decide on those?

    Also what platform do you use to buy and sell?

    Mostly I see you as having had massive success, most people do not find those Coins or Stocks before they pump, yet somehow you did. Your only problem was holding too long.

    1. 1

      I am solving this problem exactly and looking for early adopters.

  14. 1

    Totally agree with the hype cycle. I got caught up in that along with many other of my friends. Getting stuck in the hype cycle of anything is a dangerous thing. That's part of the reason why reading and researching widely is so important. If you only read people that are excited about what you like, you'll confirm any biases you have.

    1. 1

      Totally! Observing and researching are the first steps.

      After that you need to learn the tools and processes to validate and test your assumptions in the markets.

  15. 1

    Irreversible. Since Bitcoin transactions are anonymous and unregulated, another disadvantage is the lack of security. Transactions done through Bitcoin are irreversible and final, so nothing can be done if the wrong amount is sent or if it's sent to the wrong recipient. In addition, there's a risk of loss.

    1. 1

      Hi Bobby, Bitcoins transactions aren't quite anonymous, though I know what you mean. They're unregulated, that's a feature for those who need it and does marry with 'lack of security' as you claim. Transactions through Bitcoin are irreversible as time goes on, again another useful feature for those who want it. Do not send the wrong amount or to the wrong recipient. All your complaints against Bitcoin seem to be its features when compared to the current fiat money + Visa system. You may not need them, but many do.

  16. 0

    Please beware there are many fake cryptocurrrency investment platforms out there, I got scammed twice before I met a genius hacker who helped retrieve my bitcoin. The whole plan was so smooth I could not doubt it. Bitcoin is actually a great investment option but one thing I discovered over time is that it is not possible to mine bitcoin so don’t be deceived. I invested 2BTC on a particular website called FoxBtc.io, I monitored the profit yielding but got locked out of the account before I could withdraw. I went online and met this recovery expert CryptoSwiftRecovery@gmail. com who helped me retrieve my bitcoins back in few hours. He saved my life , he can save yours.

    1. 1

      There are so many scams out there. Sorry to hear it.

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    This comment has been voted down. Click to show.

    1. 1

      Can we please get some moderator attention on posts like this?

      Naming a “genius” who will “help get back your bitcoins” then including their email reads to me like a scam AND a shill.

      1. 1

        Downvote his comment. It's much easier than waiting for a mod.

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