Part-time indie hackers - How do you maintain balance?
Are you, or were you previously, a part-time indie hacker, building on the side of your day job? I want to hear from you.
How do you maintain a balance between work, family, health, and your projects?
Do you set specific goals? If so, are they high goals, or more reasonably attainable?
Do you have a set schedule, or just hack when you have a spare moment?
Do you keep your interests limited to 1 to 2 things at a time?
What frameworks, tools, mind-set, books, etc... have helped you attain this balance, or at least get closer to it?
I'm a part-time indie hacker currently, and I have a history of over-working. Either working too much at my day job, or immediately picking up too many side-projects when I'm not over-working at my job.
I have been better about this in recent years, but I've also started getting into indie hacking. (Previously my side-projects were either freelance or just building fun stuff). I have so many interests I have wanted to try for years, but I want to make sure I make time for family and self-care (I have never taken time for myself historically).
There was a good post about burn out yesterday. Managing stress (unwinding to avoid burnout) is my primary goal.
You don't need to grind day and night. What I do is I work in sprints. I do 2-3 sprits each week for a couple of hours and then live my life, when I'm recharged and found a solution to my problem (I always run into some sort of problem during my sprints) I do another one.
This allows me to:
@channingallen has a good method similar to this. Take 90 minutes to focus, then 60 minutes to relax. I tried it, and so far so good.
However, sometimes I think something has to give. We can't have the world i.e a family, a great job, an indie-hacking gig, a social life. Usually, one of those has to fall to the wayside. So decide which are most important, and recognize its ok if one of these isn't on point.
Interesting. As someone who can sit and work for 15 hours and forget to take even 15 minutes of break, that sounds so wild to take 60 minutes after 90 minutes of focus. It sounds a lot healthier, and a great system to try though. Obviously it's working for him, and it sounds like you as well.
Agreed on "something has to give". I've never been very social, so I don't have a high priority on the social life. My priorities are spending time with my wife, and taking advantage of being able to travel now that we live in a better location for it (well... before all this pandemic chaos). But I want to continue to build a foundation of financial support so that we aren't dependent on a single source of income. Plus I truly enjoy working on these projects.
I used to be like that too, but as years pass I've started to burn myself out too quickly. Instead I channel that obsessive energy and condense it during my sprints. Outside of my sprints I keep obsessing over the project anyway haha.
Exactly. I'm trying to be better about this, but I'm the same. Even when not working on it, that's about all I think about.
That sounds interesting yeah. And I cannot see any harm in it. Only problem I see is for people who have limited time to apply to their projects. But I will definetely try to incorporate this to my weekend sprints where I have a bit more time space to wiggle.
I also agree that something usually has to give. For e.g. I had two hobbies that required a lot of input from my end and eventually had to sacrifice the time I sink into one. I used to draw a lot and play bass. I don't practice my bass guitar too much anymore instead I just use it to unwind stress :)
That's a nice approach. I think part of what makes this so challenging for me is that I don't burn out very easily. I tend to become obsessive over whatever my current project is, and it's all I can think about or all I want to do. That causes family and self-care time to suffer.
I enjoy doing the work so much it doesn't bother me, but then I realize the rest of life has passed me by.
Limiting myself to time limits, or scheduling sprints might help enforce this balance.
For me the balance isn’t just about time but comfort too — after 6+ hours on dual monitors my eyes burn. I’m working on a minimal app to assist. Would love feedback: do you think something like that would help or distract?
Valid question, Joel. For me it's about two things:
1. Setting aside weekly indie time: if I'm not disciplined about (precisely) how many hours I will indie hack that week, I'm not indie hacking. That's why, the first thing on Mondays, I'll jot down what hours/days I'll be indie hacking that week.
2. Being disciplined during the indie time I set aside: I already have limited spare hours to indie hack. And those hours usually come at a cost, e.g., not spending that time with my kids, or even if I indie hack after I put the kids into bed, I'm compromising my sleep time or mind quality the next morning. That's why I can't afford to waste those indie hours with distractions or social media scrolling. During these concentrated indie hours, I religiously practice deep work (along with a pomodoro timer) in a very disciplined manner and make sure I make the best out of those hours.
Thanks @rmondo , that really makes a lot of sense. I do need to be more disciplined in general, this could be a good guideline to help me do that.
I did use a pomodoro timer for a while during work and my projects, and it really helped a lot. I just got lazy and stopped using it. Time to get back to it.
I worked nights and weekends for years before going full-time. I have a family and at the time my two kids were 10 or younger.
I tried a lot of things but what worked for me was a very deliberate, focused structure. I worked my day job, would come home (sometimes with a long commute. I've had jobs where I've had a 1-1:30 hour commute each way) eat dinner and be focused with the kids. I'd put them to sleep and work until bed time. I'm crazy about my sleep so this usually meant 2 hours a night. If you are hyper focused, you can get a lot done in this time. I would also work 3-5 hours each weekend day to help get larger chunks of time in. Typically in the morning before kids woke up or at night. I would also use vacation time at work to get full days of work done. If I started to feel burnt out, I'd take breaks on Sunday. I came to terms with the fact that it was going to be a long and slow journey. Patience is the hardest part.
I stayed focused on a single project at a time, some projects worked and some did not. I spent 3 years working nights and weekends on my current business, which I am now full-time. Even after I went "full-time", I still did part-time consulting for a little more than a year. I'm a bit risk averse so I waited until I felt comfortable with what was in my savings and knowing I could support my family with my business.
As for my process, the biggest thing for me is focus. I write notes at the end of my working session so I know exactly where I'm going to pick up the next day. This means I can start working right as I sit down, instead of trying to figure out what to do and get distracted by looking at social media. This way I always felt I was being productive and when I wasn't able to focus because I had a long day, I'd try not to beat myself up about it (although this is a lot harder said than done).
A cut out the majority of my social life (not sure this was a good thing but there was only so much I could do), any free time I had I spent with my family and I never stopped working out. I would wake up very early to get workouts in as this kept me sane. I refused to compromise my sleep and workouts.
I think the biggest thing to do, is be brutally honest with yourself about why you want to do this and what you can and can not handle. I knew I couldn't work another 4 hours on my project so most nights I worked 1 1/2 or 2 hours. I was okay with giving up my social life (I'm not much of a social butterfly) but I didn't want to compromise my health as working out has always kept me sane. I gave up video games but still carved out time to read comic books on the weekend...I was crazy structured about my time and still am.
I did this for almost 10 years, working on projects until something worked. I made a ton of the same mistakes everyone else makes, until I got smart and took on a much smaller project with a co-founder.
My main advice:
"1. Know what you can and can't give up."
That has really helped me over the years. I have strong tendencies to fret about things left undone.
I have found that every morning I have a good sense of a few 'tasks' from each of my core focus areas (family, indie project, fitness, rest, etc) that, if I accomplish them that day, I will fall asleep better at night. I try to prioritize those with the thought that anything else that I can start that day is bonus. Usually by the afternoon or evening I have a sense for tasks that are bubbling up to the surface to be given attention the next day. I notice that this works for me as well on a weekly / monthly basis.
Kind of a mini agile / scrum method in going on in my head. 😃
Thanks for sharing so much insight. There's a lot of important and useful tips in there. You make a great point, it might not be as "sexy" of an approach, but it's a solid and maintainable one.
Funny enough, I was just reading Rob Walling's stair step approach when you posted this. That's a great guide. It really opened my eyes quite a bit already.
This has really made me realize I need to stop and do some real introspection. I've been approaching this like another side project, and I don't really know what my long-term goals are, and what I can and can't give up.
Thanks for the advice!
If it's a serious thing, I schedule it. If it's for fun, I do it when I feel like it and have free time.
It's great to read all this reaffirmation that the morning people find great balance in this situation. I'm also waking up early (5am), and discovered I'm more of a morning person than night owl. Who knew?! 🤷♂️
Here's food for thought: Do you feel often at the end of the day that you didn't get to fulfil your dream of independence? ☹️ Tired all the time? 🥱 Too much mental load? 🤯 Stay up late just watching tv, scrolling the socials, getting all the feels? 😢 (all signs of burnout also, btw)
I've found the cure to that is to work on my own project in the morning. I get to apply my fully rested brain to my own work first, before my day job. I no longer feel too exhausted at the end of the day, in fact, I enjoy that time much more, as I get to relax as a reward. And because I feel more rested, it's easier to go to bed earlier. So by time-shifting the day, I get to work on my project at the most productive time, as it has turned out.
I also keep the weekend free for my social life, I know I need it as a reward, and it busts burn-out (been there). I still sometimes get to work on my project in the weekend when I find some quiet time, but now it's a bonus and no longer feels like a burden.
Admittedly, I don't have children, and wonder how this all would change with them involved, but I'm intending to keep this time model going, and it seems to work for many others.
You make some good points Bart.
I’ve found that first thing in the morning I’m super slow to start and struggle to be productive. Admittedly I haven’t tried shifting my day like you, but typically even at work I don’t get into the productive groove until right before lunch (inconvenient timing).
I will say for me burnout isn’t typically the problem. I rarely burn out and when I do I take the time I need. My fear is more that, because I’m so excited to work on my project any moment I get, I neglect other priorities of life without realizing it. I guess it’s less of a need for making the work exciting again, and more about reigning myself in to keep up with life.
I’d much rather be a sane and satisfied person than the next Elon Musk. Thanks for sharing. That puts a good perspective on it.
Such good questions! Thanks for starting this discussion :)
For me, I maintain balance by doing 2 main things:
Splitting my day into 3's: Sidekick time (my app), full-time time (my full time job), and me time (health, self-care, family/friends).
Identifying my optimal deep work time and length. For me, it's 3 hours with a 5 minute break every hour. Over this 3 hour period, it's like I'm in a flow state. There are no distractions and I'm moving through my goals swiftly and efficiently.
After understanding these 2 things, I structure my day to make room for them. Typically, I wake up do a quick morning routine, and then head to block 1, my 3 hour time block for Sidekick. Then, block 2, I have my 9-5 job. As soon as my full-time job ends, it's block 3, my me-time. This really helped me make room for everything I want to prioritize in my life at this stage.
It's different for everyone - my advice would be to reflect on if this concept of time-blocks is something you would be open to explore and then experiment! The main book that first struck me was Cal Newport's book "Deep Work: Rules for Focus in a Distracted World."
Hope this helps and you find the balance you're looking for!
Thanks Allison, this is great stuff. The time-blocks sounds like a great way to find that balance, I'll have to give it a try. And I'll check out that book, the title alone sounds really useful.
Looks like Sidekick might just be useful for this process as well. :)
Here is my story, I'll try to be short.
** You can use some nocode tools to help you out automate workflows and repetitive stuffs and Keep your your inbox clean.**
Always make enough time to Family, friends and self-care
Result => I gained ... 70% of time which let me try and launch side projects without stress or hardwork just Cool
Time management is the only thing that works for me. As a married father of three kids and a full time job, I've managed to sell a business, write blog posts, do online courses, write a book series and more. I don't say that to gloat at all - but to prove a point.
There is enough time in the day to make the life you want for yourself, but you have to prioritize what is most important to you and then divvy out your time intentionally from there.
Wow. That’s a lot to accomplish with a full family. Thanks for sharing. Goes to show it’s doable, just takes discipline.
Developing the habit of mindfulness — just noticing the current state of my body and mind — has been the #1 most helpful thing for me. Before I would work too hard and not notice that my body was crying out for relief. Now I am much more attuned to what my body needs so I'll notice a lot sooner if things are getting out of balance. Lately it's been telling me I need a lot of peaceful and pleasurable resting time :)
The Pomodoro technique is one tool that's helped me train the habit of balance too. One "pomodoro" consists of 25 minutes of work on a single task with a 5 minute break after. You string up to 4 pomodoros together before taking a longer 20-30 minute break. This rhythm is really nice and helps with balance and self-regulation / destressing. In the 5 minute breaks I usually take a moment to notice the state of my body, relax, go to the bathroom, have some tea, etc.
One nice thing about the Pomodoro technique is that you choose a single task to do at the beginning of the 25 minute work period. This has helped me be more intentional /strategic with my time instead of just constantly working on one thing then the next then the next then the next without limit.
And finally the book Getting Things Done is one I've continually returned to for the past 15 years. It has a lot of great nuggets that I've adapted to my own needs and I learn something new every time I come back to it.
A weekly review is one of the key components of the GTD system — reviewing the priorities and next actions for all projects in the upcoming week. This has helped me be more intentional about what projects and tasks I take on (and being okay with the things I'm NOT doing). This includes work stuff as well as personal things like health and family time.
Wow, that opening was right on the money for me. This is exactly my problem, I never stop to check in with my body.
I used the Pomodoro technique for a bit, both at my job and on side projects. It was effective, and I just got lazy and fell out of it. I will say that it was a little more exhausting for me though. I think part of it is, since I'm not used to taking breaks, forcing myself to do so almost felt like a penalty or something. I also constantly had the timer in the back of my mind while working. Like, I was on edge the entire time just waiting for the timer to go off and tell me "pencils down" effectively. It was like being back in school with timed tests. This made me a lot more mentally exhausted afterwards, which I guess is the point of the breaks.
I think I'm going to try again though, see if I can keep it up longer this time.
I think I read GTD years ago, I believe a previous supervisor gave that book out to each of us. It's been a while though, I'll have to see if I still have it.
Thanks for the great pointers!
I definitely identify with the feeling of "constantly had the timer in the back of my mind" and that it feels like a penalty. Our culture has such an emphasis on hustle on not enough on just peacefully existing.
In the 5 minute breaks I often notice my thoughts racing and trying to stay on the task. To me this shows that there is a lot of mental momentum — a strong habit of effort and doing.
I can safely say that it's this habit of unbalanced, habitual effort that has caused my health to tank and so that I've been effectively disabled for over a year now. Constant effort / stress is really, really bad for the body and mind. I look forward to the breaks now because that's when my body feels best.
That's the grim reality that I need to face. I can already feel my body acting like I'm twice my age, but I just brush it off. I'll keep doing that until I can't anymore... Trying to change that.
I will say that my "hustle" mentality has improved some in the recent years. I moved from the US to France, and in doing so I've started to adapt to their more reasonable approach to life. That is, work hard during work, but enjoying life is more important. It's been a challenging transition for me, since I truly enjoy the work so much, but I can already see the improvements in my physical and (mostly) mental health.
Great post and very interesting insights from all. I am also dealing with balance related issues at the moment. Have a list of 15 dream projects that I would like to do but it’s so hard to find the time. With a young family (newborn) and virtual school for the other, happy to find a minute to breathe. Funny enough, if I had marketing/business problems to solve I would use my free minutes on it. And I love that! Getting back to learning tech to work on my projects has been a bit of a challenge. Not sure why!
That's one of the hardest challenges for makers I think, funneling all of your ideas and interests down to a list of reasonable actionable items and goals. Every time I feel like I'm starting to get things to a manageable state 5 new ideas pop up and it's all I can think about.
exactly.. ever growing mountain of ideas/thoughts. thats why sometimes i prefer helping someone else with their ideas because it gives me an interesting and absolutely focus on solving that problem. And my ideas bake in the oven (4ever). Maybe its just the business marketer in me.
I created a balanced schedule for myself. I have cycles of two weeks, corresponding to my part-time job where I work 2 or 3 days. I use time blocks to control the time that I spend on my projects.
I've let myself work too hard for too long during the pandemic, and I ended up in a pretty bad shape. Now I focus on balance. I have 1-2 days per week to dedicate to entrepreneurship, and I keep the rest for family, sport, reading, and rest.
I reserved 1.5h from Monday to Friday to write my books (stable schedule), a few hours on Sunday for my newsletter, and 1-2 days for my main projects (currently a SaaS, an infoproduct and community/social media)
I've learned to accept that some things take time, and trying to rush them is not going to make them any faster, and will cause more harm than good.
A balance schedule sounds like a good idea. It looks like you've figured out a pretty nice cycle to work on multiple things consistently. That's roughly what I'd like to accomplish. I work my day job full-time, but still can work something out like that.
Thanks for sharing!
Health and well-being come first — otherwise you won't be able to do any of it. Discipline and structure are necessary. I'm a todo list fanatic. I've had to create a strict routine. And I stick to it with the "Seinfeld Method".
Basically, you mark off each day you do a thing in your calendar, and DO NOT BREAK YOUR STREAK! I don't actually do that in a calendar, but I've found that maintaining a streak is the best way for me to maintain a routine. Starting is hard. But once I've started, I really, really don't want to break it. Why? Because starting is hard, and I don't want to start over.
Here's a question: How can you systemize your job so that you have more time? The way I see it, if you can get your shit done well in less time than other people, then there's no shame in spending the left-over time on your own thing. So systematize, systematize, systematize.
Personally, I work my full-time job 3 days a week (24 hours). I get up at 5:30 every morning, work on my own projects, work out, then work on my FT job. When I'm on lunch, I'm working on my projects. After work, I work on my projects for an hour. And then two-three days per week are completely dedicated to my projects (an occasionally fielding emails from FT work). I usually take the weekends off, because I need it. Rest is important.
Thanks for the insight. That does sound like a pretty good system you’ve got working.
One thing for me is that I actually enjoy my day job. I’m not looking to “get out”, just looking to build things I enjoy and provide more than 1 source of income for our family. So, with that, during my day job I am focused on doing what I feel is best for our products and will continue to do that. I don’t have a set of tasks to complete within a certain time.
But, aside from that I can really see the benefit of the system you have in place.
You like your day job? 🤯
Good for you, that's awesome (and too rare). Just out of curiosity, what would you do if your side-project blew up? Keep the day job, go full-time on your project, or try to make it work with both?
Yeah, I've been very fortunate to enjoy most jobs I've had. I truly love programming, and have been able to land jobs that are good with good teammates.
I have no problem leaving my job if one of my projects gets to a point where that decision needs to be made. It's just not my immediate goal. I'd like to build multiple streams of income, even if they're small, just to diversify a bit. Plus I enjoy building these projects because I enjoy solving problems.
I think it'd need to be pretty significant for me to leave my job though. I'm the only income for my family at the moment, and we live in a country where a visa is required for now (which is currently provided by my employer) and would like to stay out here. So, to leave the job would mean the tradeoff is worth it, and I can be confident in our financial stability.
Make sure your side project or goal is reasonable for the resources you have and the life style you want to live.
If your project requires a large upfront investment initially and eases off once it is established, it's might be acceptable for you to give sacrifice balance in your life temporarily. However, if the project requires sacrifice from you in perpetuity, then you might need to seriously rethink the scope of the project or even the project itself.
If your goal is to be a single-person operation that puts real restrictions on what you can build and it requires discipline to adhere to that. Scope creep is the apex predator of indie hackers.
EDIT: Personally, I found a lot more success in my side projects once I started building things that I could actually ship in a reasonable amount of time. It also reduced the sting if I later have to abandon the project because it wasn't able to get traction or it turned out to be something I didn't resonate with anymore.
That’s a solid point. My previous project was a mistake - didn’t validate it and built way too complex of a product, spending way too long on it. I’m trying to do better. I’ve got a list of things I want to do, or types of things I want to try (e.g. an info product, more blogging, a mobile app, etc…). I’m realizing I should focus on the more simple first and work my way up maybe.
Get good sleep, eat as healthy as you can, maintain relationships with the right people, get exercise, and keep making that which lights you up.
Wow. 4 out of those 5 things I don't think I have ever consistently done in my life. I make things I love, but can't say I've done the others things... When I see people who have that type of life structure I am in awe. To me that life is fiction.
It sounds like I really need to take better care of myself, and maybe find someone to hold me accountable for these things.
Hi Rain2o, people often overlook their talents. Your comment helped me remember that this is life balance aspect is something I can and perhaps should help others with. Cheers, mate.
I work part time.
Monday to Wednesday on my freelance "day job".
Sunday, Thursday and Friday are for my own projects :)
Saturday is for resting.
Quite easy to make the separation this way. and is just enough balance for me :)
Yeah I imagine part time work would make it a lot easier to handle this balance. Looks like you’ve got a nice schedule going for yourself.
I am more of the opinion that:
"balance is just not a thing if you're in the pursuit of hard problems.
You just can't solve a tough challenge by working 4-5 hours a day.
You have to obsess over it every waking hour to have a chance of success."
I am currently on my early 20s, working in Finance, while running a tool to collect, manage and optimize subscriptions.
A billing team for digital creators
I feel super tired most of the time, but the enthusiasm from happy customers is just all it takes for me!
Burnt out late last year, but entered this one with renewed enthusiasm.
Not sustainable in the long-run, but currently taking most out of it!
If you can do that and are happy with it, more power to you. I’m no longer in my twenties and don’t have the energy for that kind of life anymore. I would recommend being careful not to burn yourself out too quickly, but if you have a timeline/end goal in mind perhaps you can do it while you’re still young.