I see a bunch of indie hackers doing a "12 projects a year" kind of challenge. While an interesting exercise on its own, it looks counter-intuitive.
I would rather find one project that works and double down on it.
What's your take on this?
I think that builders and product people tend to polish products too much and release them way too late or even stop working on them without showing them to others. That said, in my opinion, the clue to this challenge is to build a mindset that "done is better than perfect" and get feedback quickly.
On the other hand, I remember that once I had a New Year's resolution to read 50 books in one year. I end up with my focus on that number not the actual content of the books so it is important to remember that 😉
Definitely agree that the purpose of the exercise is to get into the 'done is better than perfect' exercise. I think it's also an exercise for some people to just put things out into the world. I know i'm sometimes in the camp of 'it's not good enough, don't put it out', which is precisely when you should put something out into the world :)
Super agree on the latter part. This can go wrong if the mindset is just catered to 'finish' the tasks by reaching the number. The main essence is then lost.
What is then the right balance between focusing on the number and focusing too much on the product? Asking @vd as well.
You need to define realistic factors for measuring something as success for each idea you'll be executing per month. If revenue is the goal, make your target of having 1-2 paying customers after shipping the project. That doesn't happen? Move to next idea in the next month.
The practical and clearly defined it is, the better it will yield the results as you progress.
That's true, however isn't one month pretty quick for both building the product and getting customers? Sure, a presale could work but that might mean you don't know whether you can actually build the product afterwards. Happened to me, had a product that I designed and looked good but couldn't actually code it up, it was too advanced.
Oh man, that’s a tuff question because it always depends on the situation. I think that everyone has an inner compass. If you regularly ask yourself that question, that could be a good sign that something is wrong and you are getting away from that balance😉
Having people around you who can give you feedback is also helpful.
Great point! Totally agree
Well said
I'm fairly certain all this is based on Levels.io's initial challenge, and I think there was a special combination of things that made it work for him that might make it challenging for others:
Maybe some other folks had been doing "build in public" challenges before, but he managed to get a lot of publicity off that particular thing alone – just that he was building an improbable 12 in public in succession.
He had a huge hit – right time / right place – with the digital nomad stuff, and a bunch of his products were a spinoff of that initial project.
Once his early project got traction, it was much easier for the next projects to get some publicity because they were coming from HIM, as a maker with a name and personality. But he has a blog post where he says that only one or two of his projects has ever made any money (and I think it was the earlier ones?). So I think the key here is you have to have a good initial splash and be able to make the story about yourself, as a maker, so that people are following YOU and what you're working on, rather than just stumbling on your projects. Then he subsequent project gets the benefit of your community snowballing, versus making like 10 things with no publicity and then making a splash on your 11th.
I think it's very useful for getting out of the rut of, "I need to validate my idea first", "Just looking for product-market fit", "Need a little more work in my MVP before putting it out there".
So in other words, having those kinds of constraints, forces you to move fast and get out of your own damn way.
That said, it's not for everyone. Very few people have the skillset and conditions to make it happen properly.
I recently listened to https://37signals.com/podcast/good-enough-is-fine/ and thought what DHH said at 17:03 was good
Doing 12 projects forces you to "kill your darlings" with features and ideas. It may also force you to kill entire "darling" projects sooner than you otherwise would have. 12 really small projects could be less work than one or two big projects with all the "darling" bells and whistles you dream of. The goal of 12 in a year seems a bit extreme to me, but then again I don't have a successful product yet.
I used to advocate against it. It's not a magical path to guaranteed success rather if people keep on that track will increase their chances of success. Aiming to start 12 projects is a way to find that one project that works.
One downside, it is no longer exciting for the audience to hear. It used to be a productivity and marketing hack. Now it's only a productivity hack where you have to push yourself without the perks of interested eyes.
Mathematically, in six months. If you spare an hour per project, it's 6 hours per day. Good luck finding time to build the 7th one.
That assumes you're keeping up with each product compoundingly, which is not always the case; many founders finish one product a month and then don't look at it again.
Many founders couldn't even finish the first one. I had a blog post with my previous (deleted) account where I take an in-depth look.
Anyone willing to know more can follow these simple steps,
Results will SHOCK you! (yeah I watch youtube a lot.)
On the other hand, the ones who we call "succeeded". Are the ones who spent a week building and three weeks promoting themselves along with the newest product. If founders spend all day building their products, I'll guarantee them a fail.
Rather, I should have said many founders [who actually finish (or do a substantial portion of) the 12 startups in 12 months challenge] finish one product a month and then don't look at it again, I agree that most in general don't finish the challenge at all, but I'm talking about the former population, not the latter. Of those, what I've noticed is that they don't try to keep up with their previous products, they try to finish it and move on.
I also agree that the people who are most successful spend a lot more time marketing than building.
I doubt this discussion will help anyone but former population didn't finish it either. Even the one who come up with the idea, dropped after 7th.
https://levels.io/12-startups-12-months/
While we were waiting for new projects. All we get was how awesome nomad lifestyle and his wardrobe choices.
https://blog.yongfook.com/12-startups-in-12-months.html
Can count as another "success" story. Dropped after 7th. 7 is almost half of 12, not near substantial.
It seems like no matter what people listen to myths, follow unrealistic dreams, don't compare the days conditions etc. Well good luck to y'all.
Sure, but they actually were successful, so why would they continue doing the 12 in 12? That is the means to the goal of a successful company, not a goal in itself. In fact, if someone had a growing product but cast it aside to work on the next month's startup, and even if they finished 12 in 12, I'd call that a failure, not a success, of the true goals of the 12 in 12 challenge.
I didn't say they should've continue or stop. Simply respond to your claims.
It's business, you start small with what you have, accumulate your network, revenue, etc, and re-invest in the next venture. Nothing magical here. Slapping it a growth hack label which loosely defined and has no rational points won't make it more magical than it is.
I miss the manifesto of the challenge but if the true goal is to succeed then what's the point of calling it 12 in 12.
Well it's a challenge to get people motivated to ship stuff fast. 12 in 12 succinctly explains the challenge, not necessarily that the name is also literally the goal. We could say "We're doing 12 startups in 12 months, with the goal of building a successful startup even if we don't finish," but that's a mouthful so people just summarize that to 12 in 12.
Makes no sense. Fast is relative but let's say a project a month is fast.
"A project a month until I hit $xK/MRR." Not so mouthful, but genuine. If 12 in 12 is the only way to describe fast production, well better look for a marketing partner.
Where did I say that? I was merely telling you why people call it 12 in 12, not that it's the "only" way.
I take that it's more for fun and get into the practice of building rather than actually building something profitable.
I'm building 12 startups in 12 months to increase my chances of hitting onto a profitable idea. I figure if I only build what's fun for me, I'll spend 4 months on something technically challenging, rather than something that people actually want to pay for.
Doing a challenge like this will force me to abandon projects, even if they're good ideas or fun to work on, if they're not profitable.
TLDR: THere are lots of reasons, but it really comes down to not being able to answer your comment below with any real certainty.
"I would rather find one project that works and double down on it."
I think your comment here is part of the reason many do 12x12 exercises: What one project would you focus on? Why that project? Is that project the one that will be successful? How do you know?
Basically, one reason to do 12x12 challenges is because you can't possibly know beforehand which one project will be the successful one - if any. You might like one better. You might hope one will be more than the others. But you can't know.
So the goal from this stand point is to put one out at a time, not spend too much time on any one (hence the "1-month per project" constraint) and at the end of each month see if the current project has any traction. Once you've put a few dud projects into the world, you know if a project has traction or not. If you hit on one that does, then you double down on it.
Finishing the challenge is not the goal - typically . Blowing through ideas - any and all ideas - to get to one that is valid and profitable is the goal. And since you don't know which one will be, you run through all of them. Maybe you DO get lucky on that first project, but most likey you'll hit something on project 8, 9 , or even 35.
A second reason people do a 12x12 challenge is to train that "launch muscle". Many of us (myself included) fall flat long before we launch even the simplest MVP. So by doing a 12x12 it's like doing reps at the gym. But instead of training our legs or biceps, we are training the ability to just launch something usable to the world.
Over a few projects our MVPs will be slightly more polished, and we will be better at actually getting to launch. Even if these projects aren't profitable, we are training ourselves to focus and be efficient enough to go from start to finish quickly and not get bogged down by non-essential BS during the build. What is the problem? What is the most basic way to solve this problem? How can I get the solution in front of people in the quickest amount of time? How can I evaluate if others found it useful?
A third reason why many people do a 12x12 challenge is simply the sheer number of ideas we have. We can't possibly focus on building a great thing for all of them, but we can build 12 (or 24 or 70+) MVPs for each and hopefully find one or two will be profitable.
And I think the final and maybe the biggest reason - which coincidentally started with all of the 4 above combined - is that Pieter Levels popularized the idea of building 12 projects in 12 months several years ago with his blog and posts about the projects he was building before striking gold with NomadList and RemoteOk.
Pieter almost single-handedly (obviously he wasn't the only one, I am genralizing based on his popularity in the Remote Work, Indie Hacker, and Nomad community along with the work he did to promote it, Yong Fuk is another trailblazer in this) popularized remote work, indie-hacking and such with his candid posts about the topics and building tools to help people become digital nomads and remote workers long before COVID.
It is not exaggeration to say we would not be on this forum having this conversation if it was not for Pieter Levels making the decision to 1. start 12 projects to train his launch muscle, and 2. retitle his blog post from "12 PROJECTS in 12 Months" to "12 STARTUPS in 12 months". The sheer hubris of that post title garnered him almost instant press.
If it wasn't for his open documentation of his journey through those 7 months (he hit gold with NomadList before the 12 months were up and doubled then tripled down on it), @csallen would not have found his posts on HackerNews and would not have come up with the idea for IndieHackers as a site to help other wantrepreneurs.
Because of all of the above, many of us hope that by building a large number of things we can somehow emulate even a small amount of Pieter's success.
Also, for myself, as a sales person in a prior work life, I know EVERYTHING is a numbers game, and 100% agree with successful indiehackers like Pieter Levels, and @csallen when they warn not to shoot your shot on a single idea. Put alot out their, maybe one will hit it big.
Pieter Levels took this challenge which I wrote about. Practice yields results. Phil… https://abitgamey.substack.com/p/our-startup-in-7-steps
They do it to force themselves to not get attached to a single idea and validate many different ideas quickly. Of course, once you have something that works, it makes sense to put all your attention on it.
I'm of the same mindset but I think you answered your own question:
"I would rather find one project that works and double down on it."
I guess the idea is to make lots of MVPs, see what works, then double down on the winner.
If you plan for long term with a defined target market, how can you even focus on second one?
Depends I have mini projects within my main big project. Some of those mini ones don't do well and I know when to cut.
I think it depends on what your goal is. Do you want to have some fun side projects or learn something new? Then go for it.
Is your goal to build a startup? Then work on something you're passionate about and nurture traits like persistence and commitment.
Oh, I'm a huge fan of such challenges. There are so many arguments for taking them on! From committing to completing it and achieving success (which doesn't always come) there are a lot of ups and downs - no boredom. Plus, there is a huge amount of learning, new experiences and connections to be made. And if you can share it with the community? Perfect. And if one of the projects happens to be successful, perfect x2. From a business point of view, it would be more effective to work on one project, but who always follows common sense?
In my opinion is a bit out of scope, and feel that is more like create content than actually a business
Work out for some, as have seen an instant where someone push 12 products out in a y year and 2 became successful
But It will really be hand to survey an idea, develop the MPV, and market a product in a month before moving on to another.
This really a tedious journey
I've had the same question on my mind.
I can see the benefit of increasing your batting average may make it more likely you hit a home run while giving you the 'don't be precious' about a partiaulcar idea mindset.
The problem I see is, it's hard enough getting users onboard to get feedback on one product (marketing, product, building etc.), I can't for the life of me see how it would be possible to do this 12 times to produce something that people want to actually use in a highly competitive market.
I think a project every 3 months sounds more feasible, since it's hard to know when to stick or fold on a particular idea before its had chance to flesh out.
Would be interesting to hear from any one who has approached it both ways.
It's luck through motion, the more projects you do, the more area you touch, and the more likely you're going to validate a good idea.
At this point, I would just stop the challenge :)
While I prefer to just focus on 1 project at a time, I think it’s main benefits are:
This comment was deleted 4 years ago
This is written by ChatGPT, isn't it?
hahahaha I think you're right.