Reinventing the long-term online dating
Hi, I would like to talk a bit about my idea here. I am almost at the MVP stage technically, but when I started thinking about how I would find those first users, I got a whole bunch of doubts. I decided it's probably better to show it to others before I spend more time on it.
This is the first time I am exposing this to a wider and experienced audience and I just hope I am not making a mistake here and risking someone motivated/funded will just take it from me.
I read a few threads here about dating apps and I do agree that it's a hard market to reach and very saturated with big companies investing in strong marketing. And the fact alone that I need many users for the "matchmaking" to actually work is definitely scary.
But I don't want to just give up without doing everything in my power first to try to succeed. I believe this can actually help many people if I approach it in the right way.
I like to think that my idea is unique in that sense that I wasn't able to find anything similar anywhere. Here are some simple key points where I think it's different from the other online dating approaches:
- no photos - probably the most controversial approach
- no profiles - just a few private values, never shared with anyone
- no catalog - partner to contact is selected with an algorithm
I don't intend to get "rich" with this and I don't expect it will be for everyone. This is just my way of trying to make a world a better place.
I do already have a few opinions and most of them are positive. Some of them have trouble grasping the core idea - to know more about each other before making the next step - a physical date.
Looking forward to your thoughts here.
Genuine question, what happens when two people have been talking ‘the dark’ for weeks and when the light is turned on decide they don’t find each other attractive. Seems a huge time investment.
Thank you @rgibo, that's a very common question and I will have a blog post about it.
Think about it. When you start dating based on the picture/profile and going on several dates, that's like an enormous time investment in comparison. Sure, there might be other "benefits" like sex, but if that's what you are looking for then my app isn't for you just yet.
Several weeks or months later it might turn out the other person was lying to you and they are not who they seemed to be. Depending on how big the lie is, you might want to end it and that will be very painful. Or decide to give it even more time to "accommodate". But honestly, relationships build on the lie tend to end fairly soon.
I believe when people will be getting to know each other through the voice only, they don't need to be hiding anything from each other. There will be even several guides on what topics you should talk about before considering a real date.
Furthermore, if they are curious, they can always ask about physical appearance. For example, if someone really hates fat girls, asking about that is much simple because you don't see that other person. She can lie to you as well of course, but chances are much smaller because she doesn't want to risk that hateful look when you see her for the first time.
Interesting idea, Daniel. The TV show was The Dating Game and the "contestant" had 3 choices to choose who to go on a date with so there were some stakes involved. Without any stakes, I think people will need to at least have some basic info about the person to see if they even want to build a connection. How does this differ than the old phone dating apps where people built an audio-only profile and the opposite sex would pay to browse through the profiles? As a voice actor, it interests me as well from an audio standpoint - but alas, one can have a "great voice" but their physical appearance doesn't match. LOL
Thank you for the response, David. I am not entirely sure what that "basic" info should be. Everyone is interested in something else. There are a few basic facts that can be easily deduced:
Anything else they can simply ask each other. In my opinion, no profile with facts can ever beat human conversation. You might be asking the same thing with different people over time, but the response will be always different. That will make it always interesting.
The premise I am building on here is simply "the need" for someone to love (ie. to understand on a deep level). Along with the kind of annoyance of current ways of online dating makes good enough combination I believe.
About voice, I am not sure if you have misunderstood the idea, but there will be no recordings of any voice. And there will be no browsing of other profiles. You just hit the button and based on algorithm you either get connected with a new person or someone you talked within past days (you will know that).
People's voice "beauty" is probably relative in a similar way as physical appearance. Someone can be attracted to a voice that others find unappealing.
Oh, I had a different impression based on the description and app name (sounds open to interpretation to me). Well, if it is merely an algorithm matching app then you probably will want to capture more personalized information (like a stripped-down eHarmony profile) for the matches to be really relevant. Anyway, all the best with it!
I don't think it's necessary to have more information. I believe people should sort out what they want to actually know and ask about it in first few minutes of the call. Any sort of detailed automatic filtering could be harmful in the end because it depends on interpretation. One fact can be seen as something else by different people.
I think this is a great idea. I remember there is a TV show like this where people can only talk through walls without seeing each other. Since this idea is very interesting, maybe you can try to pitch some publications?
Yea, big deal of inspiration comes from the Netflix show Love is Blind. Besides, its pompous nature I thought the core idea of people talking to each other without getting physical was great. That made me wonder if it would be possible to scale that without "imprisoning" a bunch of people for several days.
maybe should name it "phone blind date"
I don't think this presents something new or progress over things that have been done before as other comments imply.
That is not to say you might not get lucky with matches and users / bussiness.
I wonder if the success of stats from married at first sight on it's versions should indicate we pretty much suck even at the best combo of all the science branches to have a good chances at finding a real match.
I think the tinder style at least took that to be like, let's at least make it super easy to browse and contact fast.
I have a friend that suppose did a lot of research work in the area and mostly sounds like the issue would be that many users in a way just generally are poor quality to match with anyone... like many bad apples and bad apples are really hard to match to anything.
While I think profile matching has failed mostly Jordan Peterson used to mention possibly showing matching and issues based on OCEAN personality test where at least it seems you can identify really bad matches :shrug:
Good Luck.
Yea, time will tell. I still have hope that when people start communicating and learning to know each other emotionally first, they will be able to build strong relationships over time.
Free will is exaggerated in my opinion. The absence of direct contact ability gives you a chance to simply say goodbye and never hear from each other again if someone feels just wrong to you. By limiting the length of the call, they can try many different people and they will filter naturally over time based on their overall preference.
No photos, no profiles, no catalog? What else? No contact info? No purpose?
I think it is a great idea to start, but I think you are moving in the wrong direction.
I developed a similar startup in 2010, called Todayter aka anonymous flirting. But it wasn't successful.
Let me elaborate a bit.
No photos - Reason is obvious, the people should focus on that voice over the course of weeks or months and get to know the other person comfortably enough. Photos can be misleading, someone made an effort to look really good (photoshop) and others can't make that better no matter what. I want to remove this barrier and leave the voice as an initial judging element. Nobody is saying they cannot exchange photos later or describe each other.
No profiles - What would be the purpose of those? Since connection happens automatically with (initially) random people, I doubt they would be like "give me a few minutes and I will overview facts about you first". Why not just ask about what interests you? You are not picking a new car or computer, it's another person which is impossible to capture with numbers and strings.
No catalog - I think people are rather picky, but they don't realize their potential partner might have other qualities than a photo or "non-smoker" sticker. They shouldn't just pick based on facts. I know that random might seems harsh at first, but I do have implemented ways how to narrow it over time so you will talk with people you like more often. That's the only natural way of true bonding in my opinion.
When you mention "non-smoker"... that's really a must have filter category, no? If we're talking a platform for serious relationships, 90+% of non-smokers I know wouldn't even consider starting a relationship with a smoker.
Without something like that, a non-smoker will have to ask everyone they talk to immediately. It'd be like "what are you looking for" in Tinder since Tinder doesn't categorise intent.
Then it makes me think if there are other filters necessary for things that are a hard 'no' for many?
What is "non-smoker". Have you thought about that? How can smoking be evaluated as a 0/1 parameter? Is someone smoking 2-5 cigarettes a smoker? What about 1 cigarette? Where is that boundary? I don't know and I don't want to mislead people with such a shallow filter.
There are many other "facts" that rely heavily on interpretation and such it's a bad idea to include them as hard filters.
If smoking (or anything) is really such an important criterion for some people, they will have to ask about it. Talk to another human being. Is it really that horrible to spend 1 minute with that question and if I am not satisfied to move on? We are spending (wasting) time on much worse activities and we are fine with that.
I am aware I might be driving away many people with such thinking. And I am totally fine with it. I am not in it for money or fame. I want to do some change that tries to pull us out of our comfort zone. Is living in a constant comfort actually a living?
Interesting reply. I guess you're right actually on the smoking point. Out of interest what minimum filters do you think you'd need to make it useful? Just sexual orientation? No age range?
I have to disagree on the smoking part.
It is most definitely a 0/1 for some people. A lot of things are 0/1 for most people based on prior experiences, self-awareness or cultural backgrounds.
Sure it is a question that can be asked.
One tool that multiple sites have been using is how okcupid started, by having questionnaires asking people to rate whether the other person's answer was acceptable or a deal breaker.
However, usually the reason for having those as parameters in a profile search is to avoid having a first date being a complete interview of both sides for basics.
Something to keep in mind too, is that there is nothing more disappointing than spending hours talking with someone to discover a deal breaker days or weeks later. (been there, done that)
So the presence of basic parameters reduces the number of interactions that feel like a waste of times (also been there, done that)
I think it's great to want to live outside of a comfort zone. As humans we are built to live in that comfort zone, so you might have trouble finding enough critical mass of users who share your vision to create enough connections.
Though 'Love is Blind' seemed to have been a popular show, so you might be able to find enough people who are willing to give that approach a try.
I'm not too sure about the random part. I feel like this might be a turn-off for some people. I guess this is where having minimal profile information will be a positive, it should be somewhat easy to connect people.
What are you planning to use to connect people? Are you going to build an audio communication system within the app/site?
The reason for me asking, is what will prevent people from sharing their phone number and video chat outside of the app?
That being said, in this day and age where dating has come down to swiping left or right, and amount to simply a hot-or-not challenge, there needs to be a change to bring deep emotional connection into the dating world. So I agree that there is a need for dating apps that are trying to incorporate that into their process.
I don't want to seem harsh but let's also not ignore that physical attraction is a key element in a romantic relationship.
Thank you for the elaborate response, Jerome.
Is it really that bad? I mean in case of real-life date it is surely annoying with all the physical hassle. But with effectively a phone call, does it really bother you that you spent a few hours of good talk with another human being and you talked about important things instead of the shallow classic? There will be list of important questions in the app to guide you.
Anyway, even if I wanted to include some kind of "profile". How would that work in practice? Since you are not choosing who to call, it would have to be presented to you after you are connected. Isn't that awkward to expect they will hastily study such profiles instead of talking to each other? That's what we tend to do these days. Rather send a text message than talk. That's so unhealthy in my opinion. Why should I encourage that? Speaking with your mouth is "cheap".
Yes, that's no problem, look at Skype, Zoom, and others. I just strip away the video :)
Nothing. Why should I do that? It's up to them. If they really want to use the app solely to find a random person and then bail, it's their choice. They might ruin the experience though. Especially if they share physical appearance too soon. They need to ask themselves what's really important for them. Do they want to really get to know that person or is it another Tinder-like fling?
I have blog posts and in-app explanations prepared to focus on these aspects so I want to try to guide them into such a mindset.
I absolutely agree, but is it something you should be using as an initial filter? Perhaps when you get to know that other person for a bit first, your filter in the head will be a bit more tolerant? I don't know, this is highly individual and I am planning in later phases they might be able to upload photos and reveal those only if both agree. That will make it a conscious choice and not a catalog-like approach.
dude, here's one of the best examples of how you can validate your idea within 24 hours and get first users https://thekanyestory.com/
Right. Let me know when you actually read my post. Apparently you didn't.