Webflow, Pinegrow, Wappler : Picking a Solution for Frontend UI Development as a Solo Backend Developer
Maybe there are a ton of discussions when it comes to how one compares to another, especially when it comes to Webflow, Pinegrow, Wappler, etc. But please allow me to explain where I am coming ...
So basically, I am mostly a backend guy, PHP-based. I can do frontend with HTML/CSS/jQuery. I can handle Bootstrap. I can handle Ajax. What I am not into yet is the modern frontend development with tools like Vue, React, Angular and the rests. I have done none of those. And honestly, while I can do it, I don't enjoy handcoding the UI, going through all the nested div tags, scrolling and up down finding the input that I need to fix, etc...
But taking a shot at developing my own side project with "indiehacking" and as a "solodeveloper", I am checking out tools that can help me out with the frontend development. Perhaps something that can help build a functioning, beautiful, responsive front UI with click, drag and drops and minor coding.
My plan is this. Perhaps I can use one of these tools for the frontend UI, and then I can either develop my REST API with Fusio (PHP API gateway) or Firebase as backend. And for SaaSing it up and payment integration, maybe I will go with Pabbly, Outseta or MemberStack.
So, I am just wondering if there are developers out there like me? Where you use a software / tool for frontend coding and then just develop your backend REST API.
What do you go with for the frontend UI part?
Here's what I think about each of them so far.
Webflow
Maybe the Lite Account Plan is best for my situation where I can design the UI and export the code. This will allow me to use it just as designer tool. Price, $24/mo or $192/year at the Lite Plan.
Pinegrow
Looks really cool, now with interactions and animation. I don't need the WordPress theme feature. Pinegrow is a desktop software. So you don't need the internet to use it. So that is $12/month or $99/year.
Wappler.io
This seems like a full fledge PHP web app builder if you get the Wappler Pro version. Can't say that I am not tempted. But if I stick to my goal, a tool for frontend only, the Wappler Basic should be enough, priced at €19/month (approx $20.59 USD) or €199/year (approx $215.69 USD).
That's a lot of moving parts.
Honestly man Bootstrap is all you need. Stay away from JS frameworks; they do not have a place in indie projects. Big projects with legitimate use cases that are mature? Possibly. But not new projects, especially when you're just seeking validation.
I use Ruby on Rails to build my projects. One piece of tech for the entire stack. Front-end. Back-end. Registration. Accounts. Subscriptions. Its simple and it's easily maintainable.
I strongly reccommend buying this book. https://refactoringui.com/book It will level up your design skills.
Not OP, but I'm in a similar position. I'm currently using WebFlow purely to get something up and running within a few hours, but I have wishes to "rebuild" the website from scratch. I have experience with both Bootstrap and React, but it honestly would probably take me a few days to relearn React.
My understanding is that Boostrap/HTML/CSS is for static websites, whereas React is for dynamic websites. Is that correct? Why would one choose one over the other?
Heya!
Bootstrap is a can of paint. React is for interactive user interfaces. Like if you add a comment, and you immediately see it. However, Ruby on Rails has functionality that can do this just as well. In one of my applications we have live-chat, all powered by Rails and the functionality that it provides.
But no code platforms like Webflow (or even WordPress -- to an extent) are amazing for validating ideas if you don't have much experience coding. That's where I started before moving into Rails.
That makes sense - it's definitely something I'll need to keep in mind as I "rebuild" the product, as I don't want my product features to be limited because of the front-end UI. Thanks for this feedback!
Close enough... I use Bootstrap and jQuery for UI and interactivity. It communicates via AJAX to a REST API server.
good ole bootstrap and jquery mixed with a splash of ajax. That's what I use at work.
But I'd like something that can help me with visually build the UI. Are you using anything for that?
well i use figma to mock up my designs and then code them myself from the mockup
Check out: https://openchakra.app/
It might be what you are looking for. Its a page designer app, that generates the react code for you.
Hello Ismail,
It looks like you need to give a try https://paperbits.io
This is an open-source drag and drops content builder tool for developers.
Paperbits is a UI for your backend, it has a style guide page where you can manage styles for your web content without coding.
I can say, the style guide is mostly for designers, but any front end developer who has HTML/CSS understanding in mind can easily figure out how to use it.
Paperbits follow the JAMstack approach and have static site generation step and markup. It means, a generated web site is fast and can be hosted anywhere.
You can implement REST API to store content markup.
If you do not want to manage the content you can plugin it to any headless CMS or simply manage content in files (JSON markup)
Also, you can find documentation about how to plugin it to your firebase account https://paperbits.io/wiki/getting-started
Feel free to ask any questions.
I will check it out. Sounds interesting. Thanks.
I'm a back-end developer myself and have built many indie/hobby projects. Here are two trends I've noticed over the last few years, and what they mean for indie developers:
The back-end is being commoditized and is gradually disappearing. For example, if you use Firebase/Firestore, you don't need to write any back-end code at all. Even if you still have some back-end code, it is often dwarfed by the front-end. This has been a hard lesson for me, as a back-end dev.
It is used to be that indie developers had to build every layer of their app, to have anything to demo. That is not the case any more. So as indie developers we now have the opportunity to focus our time on the parts of our app that most clearly show how to solve users' problems. I have come to realize that this is the piece that's closest to the user: the user interface. It is not yet another REST API.
After noticing these trends, I took a deep breath and spent a few days last fall learning Vue.js and how to use it with Firebase/Firestore. (People told me Vue.js was the easiest framework to learn). It was a few days of hard work, but with the skills I picked up, I can now easily whip up a prototype app in a fraction of the time I used to. And more often than not, the prototype is robust enough to become the production app.
I'm still not a UI designer. By using a UI framework on top of Vue.js (in my case Buefy) I am able to stay away from HTML most of the time and CSS all of the time.
Hope this helps!
I would say this is a naive interpretation of trends.
Every product has "code" that contributes to "buisness value" (code you should be writing), and "code" that doesn't (code you should be delegating - i.e. frameworks, services etc.). For some products the core "business value" code is back-end, and for some products its font-end. And for some its both.
If your front-end is trivial and non-value adding, you can use:
If your backe-end is trivial/non-value adding you can use:
You have to pick the right trade offs, and the right tools for the product you are making. It's very naive to say that back-end is "commoditized".
Awesome man. Good for you. Yeah... I will probably have to bite sooner or later. Thanks for the recommendation.
But for now, I may be going with Pinegrow for UI, a splash of JQuery and a REST API for the backend. I use Fusio, which requires me little coding.
But yes, I understand what you mean with Firebase and perhaps other Backend-as-a-Service solutions.
I'm in a similar position actually. I'm a data engineer (so basically a back-end developer) with experience in Python, and I knew that trying to come up with a pretty front-end UI would take a long time. For this reason, I ended up going with WebFlow just so that I can get something up within a few hours and start validating my idea, with the intention of "rebuilding" it from scratch myself after a few months.
Not sure what advice I can offer to you other than if you really think that the front-end part may be difficult, I'd use one of the no-code website builders to validate your idea first (even if it costs money). That way, if you do get validation, then it motivates you even more to learn the front-end piece and build your product from scratch.
If you're already a backend engineer, I assume you have a basic understanding of HTML, css and plain JavaScript.
From my experience, rolling your own is usually the easiest because when you are an indie hacker you need to move fast and break things.
The path of least resistance, use what you already know. Yes webflow makes it "easier" but you still need to learn webflow...
There is no magic bullet with no-code tools, I would take the path that I already know where I can move 10x as fast.
I'm working on a Webflow like app tailored towards Developers. Feel free to leave a suggestion.
https://www.indiehackers.com/post/suggestions-for-new-no-code-software-tailored-towards-developers-ce71a3a0e6
I just a few minutes ago, I discovered Midtype.com .... but they are closing down on 1st March.
Check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86wBAW3RqjU
What I find that is close is Wappler.io
I am a backend developer and I am a huge fan of the capabilities of Mobirise.com. I do think their name is stupid and I am not a fan of how little the developer interacts with his "community", but damn it is the only thing I have found that I as a backend developer can use to create attractive, response sites easily.
I work on tapdiv.com. It's a platform for rapid building of functional UIs. Ping me if it looks like something that could help you. I'd love to tell you more about it.
Just a quick consideration to keep in mind:
If you want something immediately visible to get up and running with you need a theme, separate from the web builder technology and can sometimes cost additional $$$. For this reason you may want to research which platform has a theme you can modify to match the UI style you have in mind before choosing a platform. In fact if you don't care about the no-code builder feature, you can just buy the template itself (example: ui8.net, filter by HTML).
P.S. - IH community also has some products that give you frontend frameworks take into consideration you have backend tech instead of just HTML export you get from Webflow or HTML templates. Worth checking out!
Thanks. I have bought admin html templates in the past. They look nice... just not when I started using them. LOL! Sometimes I still struggle putting widgets together on the page and wanting it to look how I want them. That is why I am considering a builder option at the moment.