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What validation looks like

A while back I saw this video "How do you create a product you know people will buy?" by Amy Hoy explaining that most people start bootstrapping the wrong way around. Most of us start with an idea, build it, then try to market and sell the product. She argues this is backwards. You should start with the market first, then figure out what they already want, and then finally build it and then simply give it to them to buy.

The video goes into exactly how to do this by picking a topic you're already into, finding out where those people hang out online, taking notes on what they say they want and need, and then building the thing and giving it to them.

After two years of fails I finally got it through my skull that my own "brilliant" ideas are not working and decided maybe she is right and I should give this a try. 😄

The tl;dr is yes, this works better than other things I have tried. Don't worry, this isn't a post about yet another super talented 10x jerk hitting $10k MRR without doing any work. I'm not a 10x jerk and I've done a whole bunch of work and only made a very small number of sales, but I can see a path forward. This method certainly works better than "build it and they will come" and it is also less effort and less stressful than "build in public". [side note: there's a huge bias towards "build in public" because it self-selects for the types of people who are vocal.]

Step 1: choosing the topic

Hoy says the topic doesn't matter that much. It just needs to be a community of people you are interested in helping out. Something you're into enough to stick with, and probably a community that's big enough to be a viable market for whatever you make.

I've been making electronic music and tinkering with music software for many years. It's a lot of fun and something I do regardless of making money. Recently a friend of mine bought me one of these neat little Pocket Operator devices by Teenage Engineering. They're a super fun way to make beats on the go.

KO-33 Pocket Operator

So I found the community where fans of these devices hang out on reddit and joined. It's a tiny niche with just 12.6k members. The total number of owners world wide is probably quite a bit more, but this is a big enough community to get a solid signal.

Step 2: lurking with a purpose (research)

Hoy's advice is to "lurk with a purpose". Basically just read and take notes on what the people in the community are talking about, paying special attention to things they need, want, and buy. She recommends 30 to 40 hours of research before you do anything else. She says once you have done this it will become really obvious what they will buy if you make it. I was deeply skeptical.

She was right. After taking notes for a few weeks it became very clear what kinds of things these people already spend money on, the problems they have, and the stuff they find cool.

I noticed that this particular community is super into the aesthetic of the devices. They are very visual and love posts which put the Pocket Operator look onto other things. I noticed that they make music on the go and I observed there are no apps that serve them specifically. I noticed they love to post videos of music made with these devices (natural virality) in conjunction with other gear (turntables etc.). They like to make music quickly without having to futz around with a bunch of different gear or protocols. They like to sync gear up using the built-in sync protocol. I noticed the devices are more than $50 and they seem to break a lot!

So I came up with a simple app idea. It plays audio loops and uses the unique sync protocol of the Pocket Operator to play perfectly in time with them. People can use this app to augment the music they are making with the device already, and it costs a lot less than buying a new Pocket Operator.

Step 3: validation

In the old days I would have dropped everything and started coding immediately after thinking of this app idea. At the time I was working on a project though and I wanted to finish it off. So I resisted the Shiny Object Syndrome urge to break out a new code base. Instead I spent a couple of hours making a simple graphical mockup:

PO LoopSync app mockup

It doesn't even do anything yet! Nobody is going to want a useless mockup lol! I posted it on the subreddit describing what the app would do, and I went to sleep.

The next morning I was elated to find 100 upvotes and an overwhelmingly positive response:

Definitely would like to try this!

This seems awesome, would love to test it out!

This looks amazing!

Brilliant, can't wait to try it!

So sick. Would appreciate a YouTube clip showing off the different features.

Cool keep us posted 👍

Looks great, would love to try it.

All about it I'm eager to play with this

Looks great! When is it coming out?

Yo, this is awesome! I can't wait to try this. Do you need any testers?

any hope for ios? if not its ok i have an android phone in a box somewhere. either way looks awesome great job!

Damn this looks great.

I would also very much love a test link please when it's up!

This is awesome! Wish iOS could be possible.

And more.

Ok Amy Hoy, I concede, you are right that research first is a far better route to figuring out what people want.

There was also a ton of feedback on different feature ideas and people offering to test the app. There was another unexpected bonus: suggestions for other app ideas that people wanted.

Step 4: build it

This part is my bread and butter. I built the app fairly quickly in just 427 lines of ClojureScript code using the WebAudio API. I ruthlessly cut away superfluous features. I tested over and over with my pocket operators and loops. I created an Android binary using Cordova. I uploaded test APKs and started sending it out to the people who had asked to help with testing. I got some great feedback, iterated on it, and eventually had a production binary ready to ship! Yay! This part was super fun. I love coding and I looove code that makes beats even more 🤓 🤓 🤓 🔊 🔊 🔊 😍 😍 😍.

Some highly motivational feedback I got during testing:

freaking AWESOMMMMME!!!! I LOVE this thing. You're a BOSS!!!

It's been working great. There haven't been any issues so far, and it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

🤓 🤓 🤓

Step 5: give it to them

I made a final production build, a demo video, updated the Google Play store listing, and then sat on my hands for several days while the gooble took their time approving it.

Finally launch day was here. I posted a launch tweet and also launched it on the pocketoperators subreddit. Then I went to sleep.

Sales from the app

So basically it worked. My people at /r/pocketoperators liked the app enough to buy it. I made 24 sales in the first 24 hours. This is not an incredible amount of money obviously. I'm not Arvid Kahl or Daniel Vassallo publishing an ebook and cruuuuuuushing iiiiit lol. However, it does show me a path forward.

The best thing of all was the feedback after I shipped the app. Once real paying customers start using it the quality of the feedback goes way up. I got several suggestions for changes I can make that dramatically improve the app and I have put them on the TODO list for implementation in the coming days and weeks.

Next

I have to confess I've been here before. In 2010 I released a music app and put it on the Android store. It made about $70 per month at its peak and all I could think at the time was "well that's never going to pay the bills". So I went back for freelance and consulting work.

What I didn't know back then is this:

What I should have done is compound that early success. Ship more apps, talk to customers, build up a brand with a solid offering.

My plan now is to do exactly that. To compound on these apps that are making a trickle of sales by improving the things people have asked for, engaging them, and by creating more apps. I'm going to use the Pocket Operator niche as a wedge to broaden out later. I have SaaS ideas too but not yet.

For now it's head back down and keep moving forward.

Thanks for reading!

Oh, I guess I should link to the app too: PO LoopSync Pocket Operator app for Android.

  1. 3

    Thanks for this Chris!!

    Keep it up!!

  2. 2

    My growth chart for Ministry of Testing basically was like that picture from Visualize Value. And my approach was similar to what Amy Hoy talks about. For me it was about creating, studying and hanging with community (research), then create products (events, sponsorship then membership) that I was confident people needed.

    It's a pretty simple concept tbh, just takes time and effort. I believe in being lean and trying things out, but the whole lean framework has never settled well with me.

    1. 1

      It's wild to think of Ministry of Testing at the start as just something you were researching, given what it grew into. Thanks for sharing!

  3. 2

    Thank you for this Post Chris.

    This is exactly what I need. An eye-openner on idea validation.
    I've tried so many things and I have a bunch of project in my PC and some hosted that I spent hours building yet nobody wants to use them.

    I hope I get this to work some day.

    1. 2

      Glad it was helpful! The key to solving "nobody wants to use them" is to stop looking internally for what to build and start looking (and listening, and reading) externally. Find a group of people, research the problems they have deeply, and only once you really understand what they want, come up with solutions. It's really hard to fight your own biases.

  4. 1

    What a humble case study. Thanks for sharing @chr15m

  5. 1

    This post is what indiehackers is all about :) Great post and Great success! :)

    1. 1

      Thank, you, I'm just going to continue working on music apps and see where it takes me.

  6. 1

    Wow, well done. Totally love that you followed Amy Hoy, her advice is awesome. Love the Problem, not the solution!!

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