I mean, outiside of your close network, if you are lucky enough to have one. I'm looking to build a product that helps people form a team (not hire devs and growth hackers) to share effort on a business idea, or join one.
I'd like to read some experiences in finding a co-founder etc. Thanks.
I'm not going to lie, I've had almost universally negative experiences with non technical people wanting to partner up.
I mostly feel annoyed when non-technical people ask me to team up because they can't actually explain in any concrete way what value they'll bring to it. To be blunt, most of the non-technical people looking to do a startup that I've met have been experts mainly in bullshit, have little to evidence that they can actually bring in customers, and just generally are expecting a fantasy life. All for the low low cost of half of my dream 😅.
Anyways, now that I've ranted. If you're a non technical person looking for technical, I'd say that the absolute best way to get technical people to take you seriously is to prove you'll be able to bring in customers week 1. Maybe that's just an email list or some verbal commitments, but make it undeniable that you'll be as valuable as they are and things will be a lot easier.
There's something to be said for sharing the burden and load related to building a business. Non-technical people can bring a lot of value to your business via sales, marketing, promotion, finance, security, support, and sometimes yet very important - money. I think non-technical people can sometimes help with mockups, idea generation, documentation, bouncing around ideas, etc.
Being a semi-technical person myself (I was a penetration tester for about 5 1/2 years), I would recommend not being so quick to discount the contributions we can bring to the table.
I also think it's interesting that you seem to think that technical people are the ones that are so good at sales when in my experience some of the best salespeople I've ever met were not technical at all (and they sold software in the information security field). Also, in my experience, some technical people don't want to deal with people or aren't good at it.
It's not at all that I think non-technical people can't be just as valuable, I was complaining that too many non-technical people try to partner up without having any real idea of what their side of the equation entails. If they're legitimately bringing in sales (through personal effort, marketing, etc.) then they're very valuable. If they can really do support, security, or finances, I would call them technical anyways and consider them hugely valuable.
Yes, having another person around can feel great, but taking on a co-founder is a very steep price to pay for it. It's not worth it if the relationship isn't balanced, and there's other ways to get that.
I definitely don't think that technical people are typically better at sales. In fact, like I said above, I think that's the best thing a non-technical founder can do early on.
Edit: You're right though, I've been pretty negative here, my apologies. I think I had a little too much coffee right before replying.
So far I've been a "non-technical" solo-preneur. I'm the one that came up with the idea for two different software products. I conceived of the ideas, researched them (and continue to do research), worked on the initial designs and mockups, built some of the servers in EC2, hired the development companies, and have also done all of the sales, support, marketing, and promotions (and everything else).
The first business didn't take off but I think our app is doing well. We are supposed to be launching a version with in-app purchases tomorrow which will then tell me if it'll generate any revenue.
No worries, I understand why you're passionate about this subject. There's a lot at stake.
Technical people can and have done all of those things, too! A perfect example would be Max Levchin or even pattio11.
Steve Jobs was very technical (albeit not the wizard Woz was) and was damned good at marketing. Elon Musk is like that, too.
Instead of looking at "technical" (or worse yet, "non-technical") as an identity, I'd look at it as one of many useful skills. Just as you don't look for a "non-sales", "non-design" or "non-PR" co-founder, it doesn't make sense to look for a non-technical one.
The more skills someone brings to the table, the better. At a minimum, they've gotta be bringing something!
I agree - I wasn't the one advocating looking for a technical or non-technical founder. I think you should find people with passion for a shared vision about what to bring to market and some idea of how to do so (ie, division of labor and what each person will do).
I felt the need to "defend" if you will, those of us that don't code, yet have much to contribute.
Totally understood. My first two businesses were non-technical and offline brick and mortar endeavors! I didn't really learn how to code until about 10 years ago.
I think it’s difficult to find a good one because it’s a very complicated partnership. In a lot of ways it’s much like marriage. You have to have trust, motivation, mutual belief, balance, aligned ethics, compromise, and complimentary roles and personalities. Finding someone like this is like finding a long term partner. You’re not going to find a cofounder with the drop of a hat.
I have tried bringing people on board at the ground level before, and the only success I’ve had is when I found a partner prior to starting the product. I think there is more motivation and a shared sense of ownership when you actually start at ground level 0, rather than partially through the product building phase. This seems to be the highest success rate for me in my experience.
thanks for the follow on IH! 👋🏻
Unfortunately, it's much harder.
When you look for your half, there are only 2 variables: you and your potential half.
When you look for a co-founder, there are 3 variables: you, your potential co-founder, and your product what makes search harder to the third power. That explains why it's not easy.
Well I think finding your half the product is your life/time that you wanna share with your half :D
So in a way they are fairly similar
I just left an incubator programme, which is focused in the beginning on finding a cofounder -- it's extremely early stage in that way.
Having spent such an intense amount of time mainly working just to get a cofounder, here's a few things I learned and maybe you find useful:
Maybe I'll think of more things later, but hope this helps :) Feel free to ask anything, I'm happy to chat more about it.
Insightful post. Did you end up finding one in the program?
I worked with two people (separately, different times), both amazing, super hard working and extremely intelligent.
Ultimately we split because of differences in passion/ideas, and also loss of belief in one of the ideas (even after gaining some traction)
I have utmost respect for both of them, and we are still friends, but just not co-founders. It’s really hard!
(This almost feels like I’m talking about an ex -wife haha but I guess it’s not too far from the truth — just no sex 😂)
Do you recommend the program?
If you are looking for a cofounder, then yes. It's a great way to meet smart and motivated people who are ready to build a company at the same time as you.
What is the ratio of tech to non-tech folks in the program?
Roughly 50/50. They intentionally build the cohort that way, in the hopes of getting the most successful teams out of it -> joinef.com
Cool thanks
Ya it's true, thanx to all of your reps, now I see a lot of similarities w marriage aha
Tried twice with two different people, now I just operate on my own it's the best way in my opinion
I've been thinking about something similar, and I wanted to go via personality tests(big 5) and some other questions that match people up based on some fundamentals that need to be the same or very similar, and then other traits in which being completely different is actually positive. But from what I've found this is ridiculously complicated because people don't work logically. You could give someone who is a 100% match in terms of traits and such, but people work with people they like for reasons that aren't necessarily productive. I've worked with a lot of founders and lots of different types of founders and learned a few things.
Feel free to holler at me.
Thanks. Imo, if you think at it as a "Tinder for startup founders", you're doing the wrong way.
Well I mean the founders can bang if they want and it doesn't affect professional matters.
But no, I've toyed around with more complex ideas, but didn't really test, often times just lack someone to bounce ideas off of.
I guess he took the opportunity to holler at you. You prob know tests exist to help identify traits when forming teams & tho no method exact why wouldn't they form part of a process?
Sorry what? I'm probably too tired but couldn't make sense of this.
me too. I meant that co-founders should not only like each other, but share a vision and be complementary in skills. When you start a company, you basically squeeze the work of 50 ppl in 3/4.
Exactly! This is literally what I meant by "match people up based on some fundamentals that need to be the same or very similar, and then other traits in which being completely different is actually positive. ".
Fundamentals are: how money is spent, and general strategy. Are we going to create a short lived business to extract as much as possible in the shortest period of time, or do we want to be around in 50 years?(this could be an actual question to help with the matching!), or "do we want to make money from day one?", "do we want to take investment?", "how much are we willing to dilute?".
And things that can and should be different would be like matching a technical person with a sales-type. Generally similar goals but complimentary people.
I find that these questions might even help both founders figure out what they want. I've worked with too many people who didn't. And this is where conflict arises.
When working with founders I always ask if they're in it to make money. The ones who tell me "to help people" generally don't make it for some reason.
found mine on reddit /entrepreneur, we're doing good. obviously, he's a tech guy, I'm a sales guy, so we had to find our groove, and we def had challenges, but we're still standing, hungrier than even
b/c good things require the hardest decisions... and a cofounder SHOULD be a hard decision...
... in fact, if you make it too quick, that's a bad sign.
I think getting them excited about your project is the hardest part. I have some developer friends whom I tried to partner with in the past but they didn't really show much interest, mostly because I'm not a good sales person.
Sometimes it's hard for them to see the endgame/benefit for your idea. So, maybe entice them some other way. Perhaps they are a frontend person who wants to learn backend and your project could be the one to get them to do that. So even if the project goes nowhere, they have learned backend.
@Temujin2795 make a good post about it. Check it out it’s may be helpful.
I think it depends on your situation.
I've got quite a few former acquaintances from my EY days that started their own businesses together. One of them started off doing just consulting work and eventually moved into the product space (Gotham Digital Science). The other is still pretty much a straight player in the consulting world (Bishop Fox). Another that I didn't work with but we were still there at the same time has turned into an extremely successful serial entrepreneur - George Kurtz (he founded both CrowdStrike and Foundstone). All of them met their co-founders at EY and left at the same time to start their companies. George took the entire national attack & penetration team (like 10 people) when they left.
The point being that they all had common interests, vision, knew each other and their capabilities extremely well, etc.
Just adding to what others already said which is the number 1:
It's tough to find someone that you trust enough to enter this kind of relationship, it's not just about trust but about also knowing that someone won't just leave run when things get tough. That's why those "mingling" co-founder type things were smart people get put together to create a business rarely work out.
From my experience it's a lot of times that there is a missing/skewed understanding of what the
wortha person brings to the table, for example I've had tons of people reaching out to make their app or help with their MVP and then offer almost nothing in return or pay withexposureor whatever you wanna call it.This is definitely people that have no clue how these things work but also just "Business people" that think devs are "Coding Monkeys" but I think there might be some learnings here in terms of your idea how much I need to see that the person has done their homework and the feeling of being treated in a
fairway in the relationship. It also works the other way around of course a good team should be balanced in skills.This might seem a bit odd but I think it's a big source of friction down the line if this is not done upfront.
Why? Because it's like a marriage.
Sounds like a great idea.
On a lighter note, this is also happening -
Ahaha, perfectly understood what u meant. It seems better to be like minded people w entrepreneurial spirit, coming out "spontaneously" w an idea than ask someone to join you.
It's because you haven't established credibility/trust yet.
Get some work done would be useful, imo. An MVP, even a landing page build to show what u have in your mind to potential co-founders.
Exactly.
I think landing pages are useless. Everyone can build a landing page and it's not enough to attract a co-founder, especially if you're looking for a technical one.
You need to show your potential partner that you're going to make it with or without them and that it's in their best interest to join you. You need leverage.
I just wrote about it here in IH: https://www.indiehackers.com/post/long-post-the-definitive-guide-to-getting-a-technical-co-founder-if-you-absolutely-don-t-know-anyone-ea920b158d
I believe at the core we need to motivate more people to follow their dreams.
There are so many potential co-founders out there, but unfortunately they are not trying to pursue their dreams.
If you have an idea in that direction, I'd be happy to help.
I think that to find someone who shares your vision is critical in that sense. It's how life works, not only entrepreneurship.
Well, I can tell you the story of how I found my co-founder, or more precisely, how he found me.
He posted on Reddit and Indie Hackers that he is looking for a co-founder. That's it.
So, he was the right person at the right time. Would'nt be great to reduce the role played by chance in these cases?
Sure it would, there is a dedicated thread on IH for this purpose -> https://www.indiehackers.com/group/looking-to-partner-up
If you have a better idea, then put it in a mindmap and create a project around this premise.