Your tech stack does matter
After going back to existing stacks nothing feels as good as React, Tailwind and Supabase.
It also makes hiring 10x easier. Finding good affordable Django/Rails devs is hard.
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After going back to existing stacks nothing feels as good as React, Tailwind and Supabase.
It also makes hiring 10x easier. Finding good affordable Django/Rails devs is hard.
Most productive stack is the one, The developer has most experience with.
Have you tried the stack above?
No, I belong to a different world of tech (like Java stack).. but still, would love to learn and try them.
I don't think a new tech stack should be a productivity boost to an experience developer currently. Nothing listed has the Ruby on Rails in 2007 kind of energy to it. I mean, React is how old and it's really starting to show its age. Tailwind is okay, I guess, but hardly revolutionary nor is it alone in what it's trying to do. Supabase is just Firebase by the looks of it.
Not to down play this at all because you've found something that you enjoy working with, but I think it's a bit premature to assume that your tech stack is the chosen one that we should all use.
The best stack is the stack that you know best.
And by this, I mean, of course, the best tech stack is LISP.
I recently started developing on the PETAL stack (Phoenix, Elixir, Tailwind, Alpine, Liveview), it's been a game changer for me, it's especially good at prototyping quickly while still being very scalable.
I wasn't a developer during the Ruby on Rails in 2007 era, but coming from the .Net world, my productivity has increased 10x since I switched to the PETAL stack.
Looks like you found a stack that you really gel with 👍
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https://marmelab.com/blog/2022/09/20/react-i-love-you.html
Good article about React.
The rest of your post is your personal opinion and ability, and I cannot feasibly contradict that.
If something better than React comes out that isn't just incrementally better and React can't adopt then i will be happy to switch to it for new projects.
"The best stack is the stack that you know best." is an opinion.
The fastest growing startups and smartest developers (http://www.paulgraham.com/pypar.html) I know seem to be using the stack above or something very similar.
If you're admitting that there are stacks out there that are incrementally better, then how can you claim yours is the best?
React is willing to change and add features. Classes -> Functions, new hooks, Suspense etc. Combine that with frameworks like Nextjs and a large ecosystem. Currently unbeaten.
Not sure why you're so biased to not using 1 stack.
Anyways not sure we will get any further, wish you best of luck.
I'm saying that you cannot claim yours is the best stack, and you've admitted as much. You're just listing React features and trying to use that to validate an opinion and personal experience.
If you want your opinion to become fact you need data. And it can't be "well I'm better with it" because that's a really small sample size, and it can't be "people I know are agreeing with me", because, again, small sample size.
My worry is that a lot of new people will come here and think that you're correct, and you aren't. You enjoy using something and you feel it makes you more productive, that's amazing! But that's all this is.
"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" I think that is what you seem to be missing.
"small sample size" Tailwind is growing extremely fast, Supabase (postgres) and Nextjs as well.
My fear is that people think stacks are made equal and will either learn an outdated stack or stick with their existing stacks.
Those stacks will lower their salaries, make them less productive and in terms of business slow them down and make it harder to employ people.
Source?
This article is pretty bad. There is a discussion on /r/reactjs about why.
That post doesn't look like unanimous dismissal of the article to me.
A good tech stack will make it so that you feel productive when coding and able to iterate quickly.
For me, I feel productive with Laravel, React/Next JS, and Tailwind, but it's a subjective thing. There's no "one tech stack to rule them all". Depending on what your background or your team's background is, the stack will vary.
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I guess the most important factor is to use the tech stack that will allow YOU to get to the next couple of stages the fastest.
Tech stack: Could include no-code
Stage: Validating interest, seeing if someone will pay, scaling to 100 users, to 1000 users, etc...
Having said that, Next.js & Firebase is my favourite right now and give me a good balance of moving fast / scaling (although I haven't had to scale very far yet 🙃)
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A good Rails dev will also get 10x more done. Tailwind is great, but React is a decent amount of work for just the front half of an app, with no router DSL, no code generators, no db migrations or validations and array of options instead of community accepted conventions for many crucial libraries.
It’s no surprise that the service you delegate your backend to, Supabase, was written in Elixir with Phoenix Framwork. Both the language and the framework were made by prolific Rails contributors who understand what a truly fullstack framework looks like!
I'm a former Rails developer and made the switch to nextjs, Tailwind and sometimes hasura during the last year.
That stack just feels way better.
Working on my legacy rails projects I miss:
With ruby I read way more code and docs to remember APIs. And I know there is sorbet and ruby types now but typescript is just a different level. Same goes for ViewComponents.
Also, many ruby gems (libs) aren't maintained that well anymore. Take devise for Auth for instance. They have severe open issues.
However, I love the expressiveness of Ruby. It is, after all, a beautiful language.
What do you like so much about Supabase?
Combines a bunch of open source packages that work very well together.
It allows me to not think about a lot of stuff and just ship code for customers.
Absolutely right. Using Nextjs in the project helps us for SSR which React doesn't support itself. I also worked with Tailwind, to my mind, it is much more useful than writing lots of CSS classes
How did you know your stack is better than someone else’s current stack? Have you tried all of them to compare?
No, but you can look at the trends I see all developers trending towards the stack above. No matter where they started.
Of course there are exceptions. But if you're a developer looking to start a new project you need a very good reason to not use the stack above.
You should use what you are familiar with. If you use React / Vue or any other does not really matter. Tailwind you can use but often there are already UI Component Libraries who are the better option for a Project.
And about the Supabase (DB) you have also quite different Options in line for that.
So this stack may be a nice one.. but sure is not the ONE Stack.
There are a lot more React packages and developers, so it kind of does matter.
I use Vue for some projects because the syntax is easier to understand.
You can use Tailwind with existing packages, if Tailwind isn't in your stack you're missing out a ton of DX and shipping ability.
What other options are close to Supabase?
Agree it matters. I built Wobaka on 100% Clojure + ClojureScript. Really enjoy working on it which certainly makes the output better.
This topic also made me think of The Python Paradox by Paul Graham.
That might be the case now for Typescript now. Lots of smart people are adopting it for side projects etc because they like the way it feels.
It also makes it easier as you scale your team.
The hiring aspect is important, but I think lots of companies may be shooting themselves in the foot requiring prior experience in certain language/frameworks, when developers with good fundamentals can learn them quickly.
I've been fortunate to be able to be hired into a company with a tech stack entirely different to what I had experience with.
When it comes to building your stack the trick is to pick the usually suspects, unless there is is really - really ! - good reason to use something obscure. Sticking to the most popular frameworks and tools will help you out when scaling out in the future.
Sounds good for slow learners or late adopters. I’d say if you have energy, you should learn a new language every year or two and mess around with a new framework every 6 months.
The most popular options have pretty much lagged the best options the whole time I’ve been a dev, due to management with beliefs like yours. New upstarts take bets on newer tech, win at a higher rate than the rest and the most popular tools gradually change.
Compare the market cap of YC companies who built their backend on Ruby in the aughts vs those that picked Java or .Net. 😉
Agreed, using a stack you are already familiar with speeds things up and lets you ship faster.
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Generally speaking, progress comes from better tools. It is the single thing that allows you to be more productive and get more done, so reviewing and improving your tools is always worthwhile.
It's fascinating when these kinds of opinions come out, as they are very polarizing it's either you 100% agree or you don't there is no room for a middle ground.
I'm very curious @volkandkaya. Is this done with the intent to build an audience because you are planning to offer a course or services around it in the future?
By the way, I think there are a few frameworks out there that make it really easy to iterate fast like Rails, Laravel, NextJS, Remix etc. Also, tailwindcss is yet another CSS framework - I personally love it - and there are similar alternatives. Supabase is again "insert cloud hosting solution here" kind of scenario. So ultimately there are few stacks that are productivity-oriented and whichever mix you choose it's all very personal.
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Often times we make our front-end more complicated than it needs to be. Also for example Rails and Pheonix have superb support for live updates in the DOM. And when you do need something more state-oriented you can use React as a micro front-end. This is not to say that NextJS is not good but to show that alternatives exist and are just as easy for someone who is in the ecosystem. React and JS in general are not without their difficulties and challenges.
You did say in your post that it is an opinion so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I've been through the hype curve with NextJS and many others and I always go back to "this is an awesome framework but it has these common pitfalls and challenges so it's a bad fit for XYZ, but good for ABC, another tool to have in the toolbox".
Why do you think it is that the creator of Tailwind always preferred Laravel and Vue over React?
Also, have you heard of Hotwire or LiveWire (both based on LiveView)? They're a lot more productive than downgrading to a heavy frontend framework like React!
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It might make me think about selling to the masses who use React, as Adam is, but it definitely doesn't tempt me to go back to React. I've already been there, done that, and moved on to more productive tools.
This is a good Stack. What about Material UI any feedback on it, am thinking about using it for our build.
I really like Material UI and have been using it for a few years (day job and side projects). It's really nice having a bunch of components pre-built, that all look nice together.
Full disclosure: I have yet to try Tailwind.
I say go with what you know or what you want to learn. :)
@readingwaters thank you for the reply. Am looking forward to seeing the power material UI has.
MUI just launched https://mui.com/base/getting-started/overview/ so they understand their is demand for Tailwind etc
I use React, Tailwind UI, Python .
I created the MVP with Svelte, then switched it back to React for the same reasons as I have limited frontend knowledge and I want to get things up and running ASAP.
From my understanding Svelte is easier than React.
What in particular made you swap back?
Tailwind UI does not support Svelte and I noticed that 60+% part of the traffic is mobile. I really don't want to spend my time adapting Tailwind UI to Svelte.
And I realized that I might hire someone for the frontend and React engineers are easy to find.
That's fair, the argument I see from Svelte devs is that it is extremely easy to learn.
(I'm still using React so haven't converted Svelte)
Firebase is not open sourced like supabase but it is also a good replacement which has more functionalities.
What functionalities does Firebase that Supabase doesn't?
For example Firebase has Firebase extensions. They help integrate services like Stripe, Algolia and many others.
A new tech stack shouldn't, in my opinion, increase an experience developer's present level of productivity. Nothing on the list has the energy of Ruby on Rails in 2007. React is getting on in years, and it's definitely beginning to show. I guess Tailwind is alright, but it's hardly ground-breaking and it's not the first initiative of its like. It appears that Supabase is simply (Firebase).(https://skintes.com/products/intense-lightening-serum-mit-vectorize-technologie)