What is better: good marketing or a good product?

Both are important, but I believe good marketing plays the main role. Look at a Saas like Jasper. The product is mediocre, but the marketing is great. As a result, they are extremely successful.

have to go with good marketing, take a look at Liquid Death drink and you can see how much marketing has played a role in their success.

That's indeed a very intriguing question!

In the ideal world, of course, a startup would aim for both high-quality marketing and a high-quality product. However, when we need to pick one, I would lean towards the side of a high-quality product with poor marketing.

The reasoning behind this is the concept of word-of-mouth and product longevity. A good product, even with poor marketing, can eventually gain traction through word-of-mouth referrals, user reviews, and repeated use. Customers who find true value in a product will come back, become loyal, and spread the word. This might take longer, but the growth tends to be more sustainable.

On the contrary, a low-quality product, no matter how excellent the marketing, will eventually face backlash from unsatisfied customers. In the age of online reviews and social media, negative customer feedback can spread quickly and may tarnish the brand's reputation beyond repair.

However, it's important to note that this doesn't undermine the value of good marketing. The real challenge is to balance both aspects to build a successful startup. After all, even the best product needs some level of exposure to reach its intended audience.

Best, Sebastian

I see a lot of examples about marketing which I agree to but a good product one that solves a real problem can sell itself. How? look at Apple and Rolls Royce, they were able to provide a product that was expertly crafted that captured the market in a different way no other company did.

The first time I bought an iPhone I wasn't convinced because I saw an ad, I was convinced because of the product and what others had to say about it, the product was just different, the approach was different and it was something we've never seen before and something that looked better than what we had. Rolls Royce makes the engines for many planes we fly on, I've never ever seen a Rolls Royce ad yet we all know those cars cost moooneeyy.

And of course those products had good branding, these companies built a brand and not just a company but a brand that will never be forgotten and brand that marketed itself all they needed was to show it to one person or tell one person about it and that's it.

So it depends on what you want for your business, are you looking to just make a lot of money fast? then good marketing, but are you looking for something unforgettable, something that will shake the market? then good product.

There's a lot of info about your question in book "0 to 1"

Good enough marketing and Function product.

Does this depend on your objectives? If you want to achieve the highest MRR in a year's time, then focus on marketing, absolutely.

But if you're playing the long game and are interested in having a business that is solid and stable 5-10 years out, then I just think you have to be product-focused.

• What's better: being healthy or being rich?
• Certainly the best is to be both healthy and rich :)

Once upon a time I was working for a very good startup (still running, still making money, not sold yet/already) and I saw many other startups around failing while.. we were not really significantly better than them in engineer, marketing, financing, support, you name it.

I came to a conclusion that everything matters :)
Certainly at different moments of business life different things can be more or less important, but what worked was making sure nothing goes below the critical level, while you push on whatever is the most important topic at the moment (in startups it's usually product development).

So in your case, I guess:

1. It's more important that neither of things falls below the minimal level. Doing zero marketing is rarely a good idea (though attractive to many entrepreneurs coming from software development).

2. And then it's more about your product nature. If it's yet another customer feedback form - marketing is probably more important, if it's a unique innovative way for evaluating the customer feedback, then.. marketing is still important (otherwise nobody will know about your product existence), yet possibly after the innovative way works.

I want to take a slightly different view here and say that it depends on your goals and how fast you want to achieve them. Weak products end up with great market share and revenue all the time thanks to good marketing (or sometimes early PMF for a very specific element of their offering), but working in companies with shitty products sucks.

I'd rather work in/on a company with mediocre marketing and a stellar product just because it would be more pleasurable work. I think in the long run, as long as you are validating that you are building a product people want then you can succeed that way too.

I know marketing is key but i am still spending time on inproving my MVP; I guess it reassures me!

Hard question, personal opinion: good marketing.
You can sell not perfect products with great marketing. But selling a product with a product-market fit and good marketing obviously are the fundamentals for exponential growth.

I'd have to say marketing. There are so many great products out there that are unfortunately never discovered.

I like what Rob Walling said in his book Start Small Stay Small ~

Great market is most important ~ if nobody wants to pay money for things or the competition is too fierce you're sunk.

Next comes marketing ~ if your marketing is better than your competitions' marketing you'll win in your market.

Next comes design ~ if your product is prettier and easier to use all else being equal you'll win.

Finally comes product ~ the thing people pay money for.

Example YNAB (you need a budget budgeting software) doesn't really sell software - they sell a 4 point system -- an idea -- to help people feel confident about their personal finances.

The software (product) which makes them money is an implementation of that idea... but in the early days that software was a spreadsheet and some people sell books on the topic etc...

I would say good marketing because there are shit products, with awesome marketing and selling huge.

I love to have a balance between both. Solid product with very good marketing.
Btw. check out ERA if you look for a note-taking tool with focus on privacy. 😜

First good product then marketing. If you do not have a good product, marketing will become a waste of time.

I think both good marketing and a good product are important for a profitable startup, and it's hard to say which one is more important. In my opinion, the best approach is to focus on both at the same time.

Having a good product is definitely essential for any startup. If your product isn't high quality or doesn't solve a real problem for your customers, then it's going to be hard to build a successful business around it. At the same time, having a good marketing strategy can help you to get the word out about your product and reach the right audience. Good marketing can help to build buzz and interest in your product, which can lead to more sales and growth for your business.

So, in my opinion, the best approach is to focus on both good marketing and a good product at the same time. This will give you the best chance of building a successful and profitable startup. Good luck!

Good marketing works first, and then it's product's time to give value.

Both.Not one less.

In the long-term success of a startup, a good product is more crucial. While great marketing can attract initial customers, the product's quality is key for customer satisfaction, loyalty, and sustained success. A high-quality product can drive organic growth and maintain a strong brand reputation.

I believe both are important. These two should not be mutually exclusive.

While good marketing can generate initial interest, poor quality products cannot sustain customer satisfaction. Bad marketing can be improved over time, but fixing a low-quality product is often more challenging. Remember, customers stay for the product, not just the promotion.

It really comes down to the type of product you're dealing with. Consider Elon Musk as an example: he's renowned for putting 100% emphasis on the product, and it's paid off because everything he's introduced has been groundbreaking. However, for products that aren't as revolutionary, I believe that strong marketing becomes a more crucial element for success.

Being an engineer, I've often pressed on "good product." But lately, in my journey of building envsecrets.com, I'm realizing how hard it is to make noise about a clearly more useful software when even the lousiest 2 or 3 day hackathon projects are able to get more subscriptions. So, now I'm confused and thinking maybe "good marketing" is more important.

I would say it depends on the desired result you want.

Good marketing + Good product

Becoming a leader in your industry.

Good marketing + Bad product

Higher churn rate. You may experience short-term success, but it won't last long.

Bad marketing + Good product

Fewer people are aware of your product, but you can still generate loyal fans through word-of-mouth.

Bad marketing + Bad product

No one knows about your product. Even if they try it, they will regret their choice.

In the long run, you can always outsource your marketing if you have a great product.
But if your product sucks, the best marketing won't save it in the long run.

That being said, Best Known Products beat Best Products everytime ! So you shouldn' t rely solely on the quality of your product to make it successful !

Marketing

Since I have not had a successful product yet, I would still say marketing is equally important as building a good product. But you always got to keep a check on your expenses if you want to stay profitable.

In the long run I'd say a good product. A good product will be easier to market, and spending tons of money on marketing a bad product will only get you so far.

I'm a new user, so I can't participate in voting. But based on my experience with the first product I developed, I must vote for the first option. It's hard to imagine that for so many years, I've been holding onto the wrong idea that the product itself is far more important than marketing. Now it seems that I was completely wrong.

Salesforce has a multi-billion dollar valuation and is nearly unusable.

All about the marketing, unfortunately.

Gotta agree with most people here. Good marketing for sure. Even an established tech company like Apple relies so much on marketing to hype up their new products despite little innovation on their new launches.

It's not the answer we developers want to see, but the further I go, the more I understand that marketing is the key to your startup's success.

Good market is most important. Of those two, marketing is more important because then you'll have actual users and their input to iterate and improve your product. Early user acquisition is an overlooked part of the startup's journey, and many startups fail because they did not accumulate enough users.

Marketing gets you to step 1, then at least you can worry about product. It doesn't apply other way around

Oh, definitely a great product. If you don't have a great product, no amount of marketing can save you. You might get initial customers in the door, but without a great product your churn will be incredible. Word of mouth is everything, especially once you hit your product/market fit.

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As an expert in product development and marketing, I can confidently say that a good product and effective marketing are crucial for a profitable startup or product. However, if forced to choose, a good product should always precede.

A good product is the backbone of a successful business. With a product that genuinely meets the customer's needs and solves a problem, it will be easier to attract and retain customers, no matter how good your marketing is. A product that truly delivers value to its customers will always find a way to succeed.

On the other hand, while a good product can still be successful with poor marketing efforts, it's important to remember that having a good marketing strategy can help increase visibility and reach a larger audience, ultimately leading to more sales and growth. Marketing is the fuel that helps to drive an excellent product to reach its full potential.

I feel like there's this low-hanging fruit of picking ideas for producs where the product itself is party the marketer. It's the age old "sent with @hotmail" trick, but not sure how many indie hackers use it as a weighted parameter when chosing which of their own ideas to go after.

For a startup that has mostly one-time purchase revenue, it's 99% marketing. If customers buy on a subscription, product is more important.

When people buy things they are usually in an emotional state (it feels good to buy something you really want). How they feel is often how much they end up valuing something. So if your marketing is better, people will be happier with your product.

I have seen products which are completely useless or were already in the market but are still selling online due to their great marketing! Not that I would take any names here. It's all about letting everyone know about your product.

Marketing involves working out what products to offer to whom in addition to modifying products based on what people want. It's not just communications :-).

As an avid builder and product person, I regrettably have to say marketing. It doesn't matter how great your product is if no one knows about it. There, unfortunately, are so many well marketed crappy products that print money.

No growth hacking would work unless you have a good product.

I would rather have a good product, spending less on marketing is always better.

Plus no marketing is also a marketing strategy - you get that feeling of finding something unique!

I go with the good product because if you have a good product that automatically converts the user into paying user but on the other hand, if you do good marketing your product and your product is not good, then all your effort will ruin, and your user will leave a poor review.

We are working on this concept for our project Churnfree.com. This tool is helping businesses to grow their businesses and reduce their customer churn rate. Because high customer chur is the major issue in the SaaS business.

if you are facing this, then you can check this tool to how that can help you to retain your customer on your product.

From an engineers point of view I think it's sad but marketing is what drives the profit.
I agree that marketing is more important but I don't agree it's right and I think this proves that something's wrong in our society. People are too lazy to search for goods and they rather wait until someone will throw stuff in their face.
That's how lot of well known billionaires are making their money - they make the effort to search for good but unknown products and simply invest in them (in their marketing).

Good marketing can make a product great but not the inverse.

marketing. look at liquid death.
It's water... and people love it.

If I can pick both (hear me out) I'd say good marketing first, and then use the customer insights you gather to improve the product. Like someone else said in the thread, if it's great and no one uses it then you won't grow.

Good marketing Tommy. Though I think you know that :-)

It doesn't matter how good your product is, if you can't get attention for it then your gonna struggle to grow.

Problem is that founders have been told a lie about the best way to get attention. As a result they don't get much of it (or at least not the right kind).

Just posted an article about this problem and how to get attention the right way - https://www.indiehackers.com/post/without-this-1-thing-your-startup-will-fail-guaranteed-heres-what-it-is-and-how-to-get-it-1ebe2eb199

Good product with great marketing. What a killer combo!!

I believe and vote for good marketing. A good product without or with crappy marketing is nothing in my opinion. Change my mind ;D