I'm curious to know what's technologies do you use for your product?
For Team Feels I've gone totally serverless:
Running costs are basically $0. The only cost was for the domain name.
Question: How running cost is zero? Why their is no cost of using AWS services such as lambda, congito, dynamodb, etc.
Hi zilay, this tech stack was chosen because AWS offer those services with a generous free tier. All of these services could incur costs if the usage is high enough to exceed the free tier, but that will only happen if my SaaS gets heavy use - which means lots of customers - so if/when that happens it's a good problem to have!
Could you please share the link of RenderCloud?
Fun fact, I believe IndieHackers uses them
Hey Dave. Hope this doesn't come across as a "pile-on" but your website took a good 90 seconds to render. I am in East Asia and connecting through a VPN in California. Otherwise, the site and service looks terrific.
Thanks for the info, I'll check the dashboard stats. Sounds like I have some optimization to do (not at all surprised 😆)
I can’t read your logo as anything else than ”Teom feels ” with an o instead of a. You might want to check whether that’s the case for other people too. Cool stack and product though!
Thanks for the constructive feedback Linus. I have contemplated moving the face to one of the 'e' letters instead and may yet do that.
We also just switched to Paddle for tax processing.
What's your current MRR?
Too soon to tell. I only even put this out there a few days ago :)
AWS API Gateway is used for APIs that the customers might connect to?
It definitely could be used like that - but in my case I don't (yet?) have a customer-facing API, so I use it to wrap a REST API around my Lambda-based backend that my React frontend uses.
And if you're more in GraphQL you could use AWS AppSync instead :)
That's cool. We started bringing in serverless into my last job but then there was a big push back against it and the serverless crowd lost. What disappointed me was that they lost completely. I think there's room for both but starting off using lambdas and stuff can be great.
That's a shame, why the pushback?
I'm a big fan of Lambda. You can even upload container images to run as lambdas now 😍
IaaS is the bread and butter of cloud today, but serverless and PaaS is the future. When we look back in a decade or two even darling tech like Kubernetes may turn out to have been stopgap measures on the road to full serverless/PaaS.
It won't suit absolutely everything, it'll fall into the usual 80/20 rule I expect.
Kubernetes and stuff like it are great for running paas and serverless workloads. All you need is someone that can run it at scale. At work we already have a thin UI/CICD layer for a multicloud Paas, and Faas is next. Without K8s it would not be possible.
There were some performance "tests" which showed a Kubernetes solution to be more performant vs a network of Lambdas. There were some questions around how relevant the test was but I was pretty new and had so much else on my plate to learn, I didn't pursue it.
I wonder if they were comparing lambda cold-starts to already-resident k8s pods.
How could you run AWS with $0 ?
AWS has very generous free-tiers for those services. Most are perma-free as long a you stick within the quotas. I think only API Gateway is free on a timed basis for 1 year and after that it is ~$1 per million requests, so dirt cheap really.
Thank you for the info ! Really helpful! I thought only Firebase is quite generous for web app. AWS looks good too
A lot of it comes down to what you use and how you use it. They have a pretty decent page to explore their free shiz, check it out: https://aws.amazon.com/free
Django (or FastAPI)
Keeping it simple and fast. Next is relatively new but its just so easy and performant.
I'm trying something a bit different with a side project i'm helping a friend with:
It's a custom e-commerce site where you can rent clothes on subscription (with a twist). Since i only have a few hours a week, i wanted it to be as low-code as possible but keep the dynamic nature of webapps.
Webflow allows for super fast design iterations. Alpine sprinkles dynamic logic on top and in combo with firebase it's just enough to build a dynamic checkout screen and subscription management with user auth, all within webflow. The stripe extension for firebase allows for a no-hands approach to payments. So far so good :)
For my latest project I'm using:
It surprised me that almost no one is working with this stack. l mainly use Laravel tailwindCSS and VueJS aswell and I think its awesome
Yeah, I agree. Laravel is great. All the basics are taken care of, so all you have to do is build your app's core functionality.
I was looking for the same, love laravel.
For my latest project I have similar stack but inertiajs and VueJs instead of livewire. Laravel is just amazing!
This, plus Next or Gatsby for static pages (landing pages, blog, docs, etc.).
Python - great language, and for ML projects almost necessary
Flask - lighweight web framework
Pytorch/pandas/numpy - just great libraries for ML
HTML5/CSS3/JS - obviously
Bootstrap - im not a great frontend dev, so this helps me so much
Postgresql - great db
Heroku - expensive but so easy. Gives me so much velocity.
This is for my current project namy.ai, but I like to reuse this stack for most of my projects.
Open to any questions!
I'd like to ask how you're testing and monitoring your stack. Do you use stuff like uptime alerts, Datadog, new relic or similar tools? How about tests?
TESTING: PyTest framework.
I've written some unittests and integration tests. Not as extensive as it should be, but then again I'm still in initial stages
No CI/CD implemented yet, I just run the test suite manually. Will do soon.
UPTIME: For uptime I just use https://uptimerobot.com/, which is super easy and just works. Funnily enough today was the first time in months that I got an uptime alert (namy.ai was down because of Heroku). I redeployed and fixed the problem in about 2 mins.
Ah! That warm feeling when you fix it fast!
Curious if you'd value a phone call instead of an email when your site is down.
Actually a good idea that I've never thought about!
Yeah, yeah I'd be willing to pay 10$ a month for a service like that. Email + phone call so I'm guaranteed to be notified. It shouldn't be too hard to build either (just use Twilio) and I don't think existing uptime monitors have that feature.
Tell me when you've built it :)
Thanks, yeah I'm working on it. I'll ping you. The end goal is to help small Saas companies implement best practices quickly and without much added work.
Among the many things you need to do when you're starting out, Ops and Monitoring are not top of mind, but I believe they can make a big difference in providing quality service and keeping users exceptionally happy.
I would like to know how much this stack costs you in terms of cloud resources?
Not that much, frankly. Here's a rundown of my current costs:
Heroku hobby tier: 7$/month
Heroku PostgreSQL Hobby Basic: 9$/month
And that's it.
Most everything in my stack is open source, so no licensing costs. I'm assuming as traffic increases I'll have to increase the number of Heroku nodes, but as it is right now the one hobby dyno can easily deal with the low requests per second.
thanks so running an ML stack is pretty cheap!
For now! I'll have to see what I do when/if I have 1000 of ML generation requests per minute/second.
The UI design and font look interesting, good work!
BTW, did you try to promote your website? And why not use the free tier of Heroku?
No, not really. There's one major feature I want to implement yet, before I really launch this (user prompts/keywords). After than is implemented in ~ 2 weeks, then i think I'll go full effort on promoting it!
Free tier of heroku has some limitations, so it's not really suitable for a commercial project. I'm using hobby tier right now when RPS are very low, so total price is cheap, but I'm assuming I'll have to scale up at some point in the future.
it reminds me to. paper css
MDX for content
(Serverless ⚡️ is amazing!!)
what do u use for content management ? Markdown files in Next or some headless cms?
Mdx is the way to go imo.. lightning fast and dev friendly!
I would only consider Rails + Hotwire or Elixir/Phoenix + LiveView.
Rails for life
For Notabase I'm using:
The code is open source if you'd like to check it out!
Rails on heroku. It's just the fastest way for me to try out ideas.
Simple and smooth.
Go, TypeScript, Vue, Postgres, ClickHouse, the HashiStack (consul + nomad + vault) on Hetzner Cloud for pirsch.io :) We also use AWS SES and S3 for email and storage, plus some services provided by Hetzner, like Letsencrypt.
Nice service, I'll be sure to use yours instead of Google for my next project.
What do you use for monitoring this? AWS stuff? Any tools like Datadog, Pngdom etc?
Thanks, I'm glad you like it! :)
We just released an article on how we operate Pirsch: https://pirsch.io/blog/techstack/ We have configured some external (free) uptime services for our website, but no real monitoring so far, except from the things Nomad provides. It has been really stable so far, but monitoring is something we have on our roadmap.
Ok, that's a fairly cheap cloud. Nice!
You mentioned a little script you use to run tests: that's what I always do, it helps so much. But lately I've been doing more and more integration tests, and plan to run those all the time against prod. I think it may be the best approach to monitoring, since it actually checks api flows.
Mainly PHP , Laravel, VueJS, Bootstrap .
We are using NextJs and Vercel serverless for @NoCodeLetters
We are building a SPA using the MS stack. Blazor frontend, next to no JS. Backend is a combo of Azure serverless functions, Azure service bus and Azure cosmos DB.
Apache2 as reverse proxy
Gunicorn WSGI+ Flask + SocketsIO
Multi-master + follower MariaDB + HAProxy load balancer
Redis for in memory cache + acts as a message broker for sockets
ZeroMQ for time series data
Python Celery for task queues
Confluent Kafka as the data message bus
Elasticsearch + Kafka Connect to feed data for indexing
PyTorch for ML framework
JWT for authenticating login + securing endpoints
Dockers for deployment
ReactJS + Redux for frontend
Wow that's quite a detailed list. How do you monitor all this? Any 3rd party tools such as Pngdom, Datadog, or just the Google cloud stuff?
Good question - I don't have effective monitoring at the moment and something I am researching (i.e. Prometheus + Grafana or alternatives such as, Datadog). Through much effort in testing + setting up redundant nodes, it's been stable - but definitely need more systematic monitoring + CI/CD.
Do let me know what you end up using. I've deployed prom, grafana and elk, and cloud monitors, and Datadog and other hosted options as well. Boy, they sure look easy at first, but each comes with its own set of problems.
How much does it cost on say AWS to deploy such a stack?
I use google cloud. It's min $450+mo depending on discounts (monthly use, etc) + exact # of nodes
My MVP stack is Bedrock
ie NextJS, Postgres, Prisma, Graphql
Making API queries is easy and everything is type-bonded.
Where is the backend deployed? Also I am assuming you deploy the front-end to Vercel but do you have to create an instance of Postgresql hosted on AWS or GCP?
Using render.com to host the database and the backend is on Nextjs serverless API, easier to manage typescript contracts
Thanks for the reply.
So your backend is Next.js API routes, right? If I understand correctly, you might have a single open endpoint which is your graphql server.
Yeah, that's correct
I'm calling my stack MVP Stack.
For Lean20 I chose what I could ship fastest with: Node/koa/mongo/angular
I wanted to drop angular in favor of react or vue, but my co-founder convinced me we should consider time-to market over learning a new ui framework. In hindsight, he was right. I’m glad we stuck with it. There are too many important problems to solve, and not trying to figure out a new tool frees us up to work on those.
We host it all (except mongo) in ECS.
For boost i use:
MondoDB on MondoDB Atlas
Node on AWS Elastic Beanstalk
S3 for assets
App / Frontend:
Ionic (Framework for native apps with web frameworks)
Native ObjCC/Kotlin implementation of performance critical parts
I own three Shopify Apps and all of them are built with:
Hi @georgekpc How much does it cost per month for an application with this stack? (Total running cost per app)
One of them still runs on a Heroku dyno which costs $7/mo.
For the other two I use Digital Ocean ($10/mo) + Hatchbox ($15/mo) so it's $25/mo.
Thanks a lot. Have a great day.
On my soon-to-be-closed startup i have the following:
Total running cost (monthly) - $15-$25
Conclusion: could’ve easily built everything using Next.js, Strapi and elasticsearch
For runhare.io I am using:
For RecordWise I am using:
Running costs are USD 7/month for Linode + USD 15/year for the domain. SendGrid is currently free through the Twilio Startup Program.
The full tech stack for Inboxes is:
Go (Golang) for the SMTP server and API.
jQuery for everything front-end
Kimsufi for dedicated server (vps's are funny about SMTP servers)
Namecheap for domain
Cloudflare for DNS
EasyWP wordpress hosting: I could host this myself, but I really would rather focus on the important stuff.
On a side note, I'm loving the Go/Mongo/jQuery setup. Really nice to work with and great for building quickly and scaling.
For Better Sheets
For Pintura Image Editor I’m using:
For Content Writing Jobs job board we use no-code stack:
Experimenting with code now for some features:
Seeing a lot of tech stacks here that are very different from my no code stack, so I thought I’d share what’s powering my membership site (https://parents.club):
We launched DocTranslator.com on a simple VPS from Vutlr.
All payments handled via Paddle for EU tax purposes
All website translations are handled by ConveyThis.com
Everything else is on PHP/Laravel/MySQL/WordPress
For Twayobiz and Rototer I use:
Check out the OLITT Tech Stack here - https://www.olitt.com/blog/olitt-technology-stack/
Native coding iosd and android --》 linode root access server. --》php/c with mysql. Everything else may just just a fluff. Especially docker.
Currently spends ~£1-2 per month for ~200 customers 👍
I'm learning to code and the stack I'm currently using is:
Vanilla JS for the front, organized in an MVC structure.
Core PHP for the back-end for the API that is tightly coupled to the front-end views, and thus doesn't have utilize the RESTFul protocol.
Depends on the project - I've incorporated significantly more no/low code in my process on webflow and notion + automation.
Primary project going into a 2.0 (still solo dev):
I've tried to stick with as few technologies as possible:
Rocket (Rust, for backend apis)
flask (soon to be Rocket, for frontend)
Linode (server hosting)
Stripe (payment processing)
PostgreSQL / SQLite for development
Stack for Starling Law Accounting:
C++17 (Drogon Framework)
Both the application and the website are built with this stack
When I am not using no/low code I am a FERN all the way guy with JS.
Heroku or Digitalocean app platform for deployment
and if I am using Python
Flask (Streamlit or Dash if ML app)
Heroku or Digitalocean App Platform for deployment
Quite happy with this stack, all the boilerplate is handled - quickly spin up a backend via AWS Amplify, build the frontend with TailwindUI components. I get to focus on the business requirements of my product instead of technical details.
React or React Native
Node with Express
MongoDb for database
Heroku for deploy
For TurboNav a Chrome Extension (not yet released):
I'm working on a Landing Page and Figma has been my latest toolset as a developer. I know it's not technical but I can already see the benefits of not coding and letting ideas develop using Concept Designs.
Alpine.js (a bit,I inherited it from the base theme I used)
A bit of Hotwire (HTML over the wire)
Fly.io for hosting
Porkbun for hosting
Migadu for email
Check it out: https://gethustleos.com/
Really liked the demo video on your landing page. Did you make that yourself / use a tool to create it?
Thanks so much! I collaborated with a motion graphic designer who made it for me for free in exchange for the product! Really love how it turned out :)
Apache, PHP, MySQL, TypeScript, React, MaterialUI.
We call our stack Laravel Stack:
Keeping it simple.
For my digital board games gomobo.app:
I started this project in 2016, thus the older tech stack. If I was starting today, I'd likely use latest Angular or React for frontend and probably Firebase for User Auth.
For my online publication/blog smalltechbusiness.com
Love this stack for static websites, and it costs $0 to host. I wrote about how I set it up here.
AngularJS (1.x) 😆
We still use that at work.
At howuku.com, we use VueJS for frontend dashboard, NodeJS for backend, and Vanilla JS for scripts to be embedded into websites.