Startup to Last
A podcast for founders who are in it for the long haul
The last time we shared a milestone update for the Startup to Last podcast we had 60 episodes and 7,000 downloads. That was eight months ago.
As of April 2021, we’ve now recorded 94 episodes and crossed 22,000 downloads. Transistor (our podcast hosting service) estimates we now have ~212 subscribers, which is up from ~72 in the last update.
And a few other updates...
We joined the IndieHackers Podcast Network
In September 2020, @csallen put together a cohort of Indie Hacker-related podcasts. Our new episodes are now included in the IndieHacker.com podcast feed. We’ve learned a ton from Courtland and the other podcast hosts over the last eight months. (Thanks, Courtland, for this opportunity.)
We added a ton of context and background information for new listeners on the Startup to Last Website
Startup to Last is an ongoing discussion about our startup journeys, which means if you’re a new listener, you’re entering in the middle of the story. We’ve made a ton of background information and context available on our about page to help new listeners get up to speed.
Our top three episodes have changed
The top three episodes are now:
We now have 16 five-star ratings on Apple Podcasts.
That's twice as many as we had eight months ago. Here’s a sample:
Solid podcast by 2 genuine guys. Great podcast by two genuine guys sharing their thoughts, challenges, and ideas openly, without hype. Highly recommend for any bootstrapper or small business entrepreneur.
We've added a way for listeners to participate in the podcast
We're trying out something new. If you have any topics you'd like Tyler and me to discuss, send a recording of the question or topic to Tyler’s ZipMessageApp inbox. Record audio (with or without video), and we'll include it on the podcast assuming t makes sense.
To those of you who have listened in, thank you for your support! The biggest unexpected benefit of hosting a podcast continues to be the new relationships we forged with listeners.
If you have questions or feedback, let @tilikang and me know.
If you didn't get a chance to listen to our podcast much in 2020, here's a quick guide to the top 5 episodes of the year.
1. Product Market Fit (381 downloads)
This week, we answer a listener question about product-market fit. Other topics from this episode:
- Rick is finished with open enrollment and walks through some metrics.
- Rick is expecting his first churn from customers who signed up earlier this year.
- Rick realizes that word of mouth happens at specific moments in time, such as when someone leaves their job, gets married, or has some other life event.
- Tyler is learning more about his strengths and weaknesses.
- Tyler is overwhelmed with interviews.
- Tyler is preparing a presentation on recruiting and diversity.
2. Setting Goals when you're just getting started (331 downloads)
This week, we talk about how to set goals when your business is too young to be able to make accurate predictions about growth. Other topics we discussed this week:
- Tyler has another lesson to share from the book he's reading.
- Rick stopped marketing and he's struggling to get momentum back.
- Tyler is trying to design team permissions for Less Annoying CRM and it's proving to be difficult.
- We give a shoutout to Jetboost.
- Rick is frustrated that no-code tools aren't more transparent about their product priorities.
3. End of 2020 mega-episode (307 downloads)
This week, we talk look back at 2020, look ahead to 2021, and make some predictions. Here are some of the topics we discuss:
- Accomplishments
- Biggest disappointment
- Biggest learning
- Why are we entrepreneurs? What drives us?
- What do we want to accomplish over 10+ years
- What do we want our roles to be long-term?
- Personal themes/goals for 2021
4. Info products moving to a subscription model (267 downloads)
This week, we talk about the pros and cons of the recent trend of info products moving to a subscription model. Here are some of the other topics we discuss:
- Slack was acquired by Salesforce for a bunch of money. Like, a whole lot.
- Stripe launched a new "Treasury" product.
- Tyler finished his end-of-year planning.
- Rick has been bouncing between projects.
- Google Search Console has been broken for Rick.
- My first million is a good podcast.
5. Planning a marketing sprint (251 downloads)
Rick is facing a unique situation. He has about two weeks to put together a marketing campaign before the window of opportunity closes. In this episode, we workshop his marketing plan. Because this is a short week, we didn't have many updates. Instead, we focused on two main topics:
- The trend of SaaS companies bundling multiple products into a single subscription.
- Rick's marketing plan for the next few weeks.
The last time we shared an update we had 48 episodes and 5,000 downloads. That was in June 2020, less than 3 months ago. Since then, we've recorded 12 more episodes and added 2,500 more downloads. Transistor (our podcast hosting service) reports we now have ~72 total subscribers, which is the highest it's ever been.
The pace of growth "feels" like it is accelerating
August 2020 was our highest download month ever with nearly 1,000 downloads, and our new episodes are now consistently getting 100 downloads within the first week of publishing.
It feels like our audience is growing, but it seems impossible to know for sure at these numbers.
The new format appears to be working for us
Around the time of the last update, we switched our format from focusing on a single deep-dive topic to covering multiple updates and smaller topics each week. It's working.
The new format has added a consistent flow from week to week. We've also seen increased engagement from our listeners since making the switch to the new format.
Connecting with our audience is rewarding
One of the most valuable and meaningful benefits of hosting this podcast is hearing from our listeners. Some chime in with follow-up questions or comments on past episodes. Others chime in with topic ideas for future episodes. And a few have even become new online friends.
Our listeners are all over the world, representing over 75 countries according to our Transistor stats. Recently, we've heard from listeners in the U.S., U.K., and Romania.
If you're a listener, we'd love to hear from you! Reach out here, via Twitter, or via email.
The last time we shared an update on our podcast (startuptolast.com), we had 32 episodes and 3,000 downloads. That was in February 2020, over 3 months ago. Since then, we've recorded 16 more episodes and added 2,000 more downloads. Transistor reports we have ~65 total subscribers, which is the highest it's ever been.
We've switched up the format a bit.
Instead of forcing a deep dive topic each week, we alternate through a list of updates, shout-outs/rants, and new topics each week. This allows us to avoid belaboring a point and move on once the conversation has been had. The new format also takes less time for both of us to prepare for as it's more flexible and free-flowing.
We now have 8 five-star ratings on Apple Podcasts.
Here a few samples that speak to our approach:
Real candid look at building a lasting business. Rick and Tyler give a great insiders look into what it takes to create a sustainable business. It is great that both of them are at completely different stages of building their businesses which is reflected in the hinderances and action items they have on their plates. Among a crowd of bootstrap business podcasts, Tyler and Rick are the most relatable and practical. A fantastic gem of a podcast packed with lot of interesting suggestions and knowledge.
Unique approach! I notice most podcast have a scripts where the host goes on and on. What I love about this Podcast is the dialogue and how I feel almost included as Tyler and Rick work through the topics. This is a great podcast if you like to get into the mind of a young, practical CEO who's not your average software tyrant!
Our top three episodes are on the following topics
- Should you consult on the side while launching a startup? You can listen at https://www.startuptolast.com/episodes/should-you-consult-on-the-side-while-launching-a-startup
- How to balance building new features vs. maintaining existing ones. You can listen at https://www.startuptolast.com/episodes/how-to-balance-building-new-features-vs-maintaining-existing-ones
- Planning a marketing site redesign. You can listen at: https://www.startuptolast.com/episodes/planning-a-marketing-site-redesign
If you have questions or feedback, let @tilikang or me know.
And to those of you who have listened in, thank you for your support!
The last time we shared an update on our podcast analytics we had 19 episodes and 1,000 downloads.
That was in November 2019, just over 3 months ago.
Since then, we've recorded 13 more episodes and added 2,000 downloads.
Perhaps more importantly, we've reduced the time we invest in the podcast each week by 90%. @tilikang and I are spending less than a few hours combined per episode. As long as we both continue to get value out of talking with each other, this time investment should be sustainable for the long term.
And even more importantly, we've added structure and meaning to our podcast name, "Startup to Last". We now find ourselves talking in the context of a "Startup to Last company". This has led to more focused topics and a unifying theme across episodes.
I continue to meet local (Utah) founders struggling with the decision to raise venture capital for the first time. After I explain the Startup to Last concept to them, it's like they find inner peace and the motivation to push forward without it.
If you're interested in learning more about a "Startup to Last" company, check out this episode about "what it means to startup to last".
And to those of you who have listened in, thank you for your support.
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1
Congrats on the steady progresss.
How did you manage to reduce the time you spend on the podcast?
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2
Thanks! We mostly reduced time by deciding not to work on low-impact work.
Originally we were paying to have every episode transcribed and Rick would then do a write-up based on the transcription (so we basically ended up with a blog post). This was very time-consuming and expensive, and traffic to those pages was very low, so we decided it wasn't worth it. Now we just write some brief show notes which takes almost no time.
Additionally, we were hosting our site on Squarespace to give us more control over the design and structure. When we decided to pull back on the write-ups, we also started using the built-in transistor.fm website which saved time since it makes a page for each episode automatically.
Finally, I'm the one who does the production of each episode, and I streamlined that process a bit by making the intro more uniform. We used to record the intro each time and then I had to put background music over it, fade it out at the right time, etc. Now we have a pre-recorded intro with background music, so we can just insert that right before the recording for each episode.
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A few episodes ago, we decided to go all meta and discuss what "startup to last" actually means. Why did we name the podcast this, and what characteristics do "startup to last" companies have in common?
We considered having this conversation privately, but since almost every business should have a conversation like this, we decided to record it in the hopes that the discussion is helpful for others.
As expected, this ended up being a bigger topic than we could cover in a single episode, but we did start narrowing down on some ideas and constraints around the idea of starting up to last:
--Traditional entrepreneurship is already set up well if your goal is to become as rich as possible. Startup to last companies should probably have some other motivation such as enjoying the work, feeling fulfilled by the impact the company has, etc.
--Despite needing to be motivated by something other than money, sustainability is key to survival, and that means that every business needs to at least make enough money to make it worthwhile for the founders. That's the first priority, and then once that "enough" number has been reached, it's time to start focusing on non-monetary goals.
--It's only possible to run a company this way if all shareholders are on board. It's not hard to get founders, employees, and customers aligned. It's harder, but maybe not impossible, to get investors on the same page (venture capitalists specifically are unlikely to want this approach). This is why bootstrapping is common among these types of companies.
--Because the goals of startup to last companies are different so are the rules. We didn't get too deep into how this might impact how you operate the business, but there's a lot to discuss there.
--It's helpful to think about the company as a place you'll work for the rest of your professional life (even if that's not true). That will help you prioritize sustainability, enjoyment, and fulfillment. Companies that expect to exit soon can justify burnout-level work environments because they know it doesn't have to last.
We're going to continue this conversation privately via a google doc. Once we make some more progress on the topic, we'll share it for constructive criticism and maybe discuss it on another episode.
When we started our podcast (www.startuptolast.com), we were trying to figure out exactly what we wanted it to be. As is common with new projects, had all kinds of ambitious ideas that we were really excited about, so we got started.
Our goal was to create a podcast, and to write a high quality article about the topic we discussed in each episode. From there, we were wanted a commenting system so that we could have conversations with our listeners. Basically, the podcast was just supposed to be the start of a larger conversation.
Here's the stack we chose to produce and host all of that:
- Zencastr for remotely recording the podcast ($20/month)
- Rev.com to get a transcription (~$200/month)
- Transistor.fm for podcast hosting ($20/month)
- Squarespace for website hosting ($40/month)
- Disqus for comments (free)
Overall, we're really happy with how things have been going. It's fun recording the episodes, we're learning a lot from each other, and our audience has been growing slowly but steadily (we're getting about 100 downloads per episode right now).
However, we realized that almost all of the things we were happy with were related to the podcast itself, and the website/community angle wasn't really working. Despite a significant amount of effort turning the transcriptions into high-quality blog posts, we got virtually no traffic to our site. Additionally, as you can see above, the main financial costs were related to the written content, not the actual podcast.
So we just made the decision to significantly simplify our stack, and so far we're both really happy with it. Now we're only using Zencastr and Transistor. Transistor's website hosting isn't as powerful as Squarespace, but it's so much easier for us to use (especially because we were already creating each episode in Transistor anyway).
This project went from costing $280/month to just $40/month, and we're spending significantly less time now that we aren't writing a full blog post for each episode. We'll never know if this will impact our growth or the long-term potential of this project, but I really think we're going get 99% of the results for 15% as much cost and 30% as much effort.
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1
Great post Tyler. I love seeing posts about podcasters and tools they use for creation. Woah, Rev was costing you $200 a month for transcription services? Have you tried out Descript or Otter for transcription?
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I'm not sure if we tried those two specifically, but we did test a number of different transcription services. Our experience was that no automated transcriptions are anywhere near good enough to really be usable, and all human transcriptions are $1/minute or more. Rev.com was actually really affordable and high-quality compared to other options we tried, but since we record about 4 episodes per month and have about 50 minutes of audio per episode, it just naturally costs $200/month.
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We've doubled in a month.
We've also gotten more comfortable with our format: @tilikang and I now alternate topics weekly. Each topic is based on a real problem one of us is facing that week.
Talking about real problems has led to regular value for both of us.
Also, we've met some interesting new people who've started listening and/or chiming in.
Another interesting metric:
*32 subscribers (this is a total guess by Transistor)
500 downloads don't seem like a lot, but when you compare it to where we were 45 days ago, it shows acceleration.
Some other interesting metrics:
*15 subscribers (this is a total guess by transistor.fm)
*50% more average downloads per episode in the first 30 days
I know this is practically nothing, but we've got to start somewhere, right? It's been a while since I've started a new project and I sort of forgot how much of a slog it is in the early days. It's a challenge to get each new listener, but there are some signs of a bit of momentum building.
The good news is that we want to have these conversations even if no one listens, so we're both fine being patient.
2 Comments
nice! i'm excited for your continued success!
Thanks, John!